Statement regarding Marisa the Magician (aka Marisa Kirisame)

[fakemai]

Poor taste is giving no mercy to pedestrian wrongthink and valid concern over a higher-up accused of ephebophilia and acting on such, while giving benefit of the doubt to said higher-up. Leave the hammers at the door you're just wrecking the place even further as well as your legitimacy.

[Noah Eadie]

While I have little experience in this specific community (one post a few years back and the occasional bit of lurking), I'm speaking as someone that's witnessed virtual empires fall due to administrative incompetence. I was drawn here because I've known too many CSA survivors to not make it a priority to speak up when possible. I've also seen what happens (none of it good for anyone) when people in power silence whistleblowers and try to sweep things under the rug. While not a CSA survivor myself, there were several times I nearly was, if not for people looking out for me. I have also (barely) survived emotional abuse from several different abusers, including CSA enablers, and have had the extreme displeasure of people close to me being revealed as CSA'rs. So while this specific dot-com is a new domain for me, none of the individual aspects of the situation are.

I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere - and I apologize if I'm retreading ground here - but I feel the need to make something clear for everyone. This is not merely an egregious social misconduct. What Marisa did was (in most parts of the world) capital C Criminal. Criminal investigation may very well be on the table, depending on where she lives and how seriously they take this sort of thing. The fucked part is that, usually, nothing happens - but when it does, it can be extreme. If, how, and when, who knows - but hopefully this helps sober up anyone that hasn't yet understood the weight of the situation and this community's part within it.

But back to the social aspect - about this place as a community in a moment of crisis. Things are coming to a head. Most people are appalled at the staff's mishandling of this situation. The way I have seen the cookie crumble in other places with such egregious top-level administrative misconduct - enough that other staff members voice their concerns publicly - one of three things happen:
1. The offending staff member/s step down.
2. The offending staff is removed, either due to, as it's been called here, a "coup", or mounting social pressure from peers.
3. The offending staff remains, and an attempt at maintaining prior status quo is made. Claims of "being better in the future" might be made (and always reneged).

For situations one and two, if it's done early enough, the community starts healing and an earnest attempt at reform is made. Sometimes just removing the staff was enough, sometimes deep systemic reworks are needed. Once that hard but necessary work is done, the place undergoes a renaissance of sorts, as those that left due to the offending staff return and re-contribute to the conversation. If removal takes too long, however, then the damage has been done, and the community is either forever severely damaged or simply crumbles.

For situation three, the community's size is catastrophically decimated. Everyone with a sense of reason leaves, and only the most toxic and most oblivious remain. It's reduced to a bitter battlefield of irrelevant shouting matches at best tangentially related to the community's intent. New members are either warned away, or leave shortly after seeing the state of the place itself. It becomes a hopeless bitter knot that only adds to the frustrations of its constituents. Splinter groups are made with varying amounts of success. The original community either festers in pain for as long as people are interested in fighting, or abandoned utterly.

I genuinely hope, for the thousands of people that at some point considered this place their virtual home, that situation one or two occurs, and swiftly.

And a moment of sympathy for the staff - and I mean this earnestly. I know from first hand experience how difficult it can be to realize the truth about someone close to you being an abuser. You default to defending their name, because they are your friend and that is what friends do. You hesitate on acting, because sometimes accusers lie about this sort of thing (though iirc she *literally* outed herself). You deny that it could possibly be the case - because you believe CSA'rs are always obvious monsters, and your friend never looked like a monster to you. I can understand the desire to keep things quiet, because you know that this information can irreversibly ruin their life. And when it finally hits - the truth becomes concrete - it is fucking gut-wrenching. While not nearly the same as actually being a victim yourself - you did not deserve to have this happen to you.

I wish everyone well, and that they have the ability to pursue their passions, as this community strives to accomplish.

(Edit: Rephrased some things in the final paragraph for clarity - nothing removed, only things added and/or shuffled around for clarity.)
(Edit2: Removed some verbiage that may imply accusation of staff as enablers. I realize there may be more context than I currently have, and do not know enough to allow myself to imply such a claim.)

[Xeotroid]

God damn it, this stuff is too serious, disgusting, and saddening to make for a good fourth instalment of Community is Falling.

[Redneckerz]

Its only now that i read this and as it unfolds, reading the joint statement (a first, i see) and what the staff did prior to that aswell as what Marisa did.
Its kind of ironic that old curtains now get washed out over a topic like this because a lot of the comments reveal a wider dissatisfaction with the staff. Truth to be told, i can't deny these either. But instead of consistently vocalizing every my thought on it, i preffered to stay reserved.

Coming from a position where the same staff has helped me tremendously for my wiki work, gaining FTP access in the process, a part of me pains to see the disgruntlement on display. I geniunely don't believe the staff is worth all the name calling, because behind those handles there are still human souls behind the telescreen.

That isn't to say things could be different. I am well aware of past ''drama'' - Mostly concerning Wild and Rachael - So i know why the juxtaposed negativity comes from.

Is it fair however? Is this instance worth it to boil down several years (!) of frustration all vented out in this particular instance? That only tells me you prefer to live with a huge chip on the shoulder - Against handles on a forum.

Caligari, in my eyes, said it best - The only thing you can fix is you. And perhaps this is a hard lesson for everyone, staff and member a like. Some behavior can never change, but other behavior you should never attempt. The former could be set by the staff, but the latter should have never been done by Marisa.

It is a shame it has come to this - Marisa being a very well respected member till this point. There is now a rift behind the seams, between staff and community. Disregarding their initial commentary regarding this, i believe they too are victims. Imagine having to deal with a situation like this. Yes, the responses could be better - should be better, even. But nobody's perfect. Certainly not staff.

And that's okay.

So without sounding like my usual holier-than-thou, i hope we all learn from this. Fortunately, we are humans so it is within our capabilities to do so.

[DoomKrakken]

---

It's a combination of treating trans people as a monolith, pretending that criticizing trans people for things that aren't their, y'know, actual identities automatically results in accusations of bigotry, and the implication that people only avoid being actively bigoted because there's some trans conspiracy at work. Frankly, if we were to treat all demographics like this, per capita, straight cis white men would be the ones being accused of "conspiring", "grooming", etc. None of this is to say that Marisa's actions were not egregious, but it has nothing to do with her being trans, nor were the actions taken by the admins/mods predicated on anyone's gender identity. The presumption that it is, is the transphobia.

---

Intriguing...

I do not believe PillowBlaster's statement had to do with Marisa et al. being trans, but rather he's attempting to highlight the fact that people who point out any sort of wrongdoing done on the part of somebody who just so happens to be trans are often - seemingly automatically - accused of being bigoted... just for pointing out something that has nothing to do with the person being trans.

No mention of "this person is trans and therefore wrong", no sweeping generalization of trans people saying "see this is what trans people do"... he's just seeing a pattern where, for whatever reason, certain people accuse any naysayers of being bigoted simply because the wrongdoer just so happens to be trans and therefore "anti-<wrongdoer> == anti-trans". He's pointing out the fact that there exist people who hide behind the "bigot" buzzword, abusing it to call others to arms and drown out the dissident opposition in a sea of confusion and madness and reactionary emotion.

PillowBlaster laid out his concern that the ZDoom moderators - many of whom just so happen to be trans themselves - could possibly be falling into this cycle; either because they were themselves afraid of being called bigots, or because they are actually petty enough to sling the word to silence others. He held that others ought to speak up about it and voice their dissent, regardless of who the wrongdoer is.

Like PillowBlaster said, "... it's not a 'phobia or 'ism to notice such things and to air your grievances...".

With all that in mind, considering how quickly PillowBlaster was banned and his comment censored, it's absolutely reasonable now to think that the fears which PillowBlaster expressed in his statement may indeed be true... and that's honestly scary.

[bimshwel]

regarding the trans matter, it is possible to be surrounded by such folk and not even know it. I am one. Or would be, if attitudes about it had been less threatening back when I was young enough to pull it off in a way I thought was convincing, so I settle for "nonbinary," amidst company that I think would care and also accept it, and apart from rare situations where it merely seems relevant, I otherwise do not raise the issue. I understand the fear of being seen AS bigoted, but cronyism or whatever it is most certainly is nothing new. Maybe being ostentatious about what groups one belongs to makes someone disposed to act certain ways but that is also nothing new. Like my brother with his Infowars and "Hillary for prison" bumper stickers. He can be good company but I am glad he is not a moderator on any communication service I use.

[Caligari87]

Just by way of soft announcement, several major changes have been made. I will be drafting and posting a statement later this evening.

In the meantime, I would like to encourage everyone to slow down and take a breather. There's no more use speculating or casting blame; what's done is done and I'd like us all to move on as peacefully as possible. More information will be forthcoming.

[Artbor]

Whatever change occurs, I hope what TerminusEst13 went through won't happen again. It's pretty clear he felt betrayed by the community when he was being sexually harassed by Marisa.
https://twitter.com/TerminusEst13/statu ... 5872942110
https://twitter.com/TerminusEst13/statu ... 9480224774

[The Toxic Avenger]

Weasel, if you're still around, I just want to be honest if you're willing to read this (I completely understand if you're not); I do not want you to fail. I want to see you pull yourself up from this and better yourself from it. In no way do I want to turn my back on you and leave you at the curb. Despite everything, I still want you to succeed, just fight a better fight.

I know this isn't exactly the popular opinion there, but, despite all this I still see potential for you to come back from this an improved person. I would like to see you to eventually reconcile with some people down the road, too.

[Caligari87]

Announcement: Changes in Forum Administration

I believe this current thread has run its course; pretty much everything that could be said, has been. I'll leave it open for another 3-4 hours, then I'm going to lock it, as I'd like us to focus on moving forward from here.

[Noah Eadie]

Despite not being a true member of this community, I will admit I've lost some sleep over this, mainly due to personal baggage over similar matters. I'm genuinely glad to see a positive resolution.

[DoomKrakken]

---

Intriguing...

I do not believe PillowBlaster's statement had to do with Marisa et al. being trans, but rather he's attempting to highlight the fact that people who point out any sort of wrongdoing done on the part of somebody who just so happens to be trans are often - seemingly automatically - accused of being bigoted... just for pointing out something that has nothing to do with the person being trans.

No mention of "this person is trans and therefore wrong", no sweeping generalization of trans people saying "see this is what trans people do"... he's just seeing a pattern where, for whatever reason, certain people accuse any naysayers of being bigoted simply because the wrongdoer just so happens to be trans and therefore "anti-<wrongdoer> == anti-trans". He's pointing out the fact that there exist people who hide behind the "bigot" buzzword, abusing it to call others to arms and drown out the dissident opposition in a sea of confusion and madness and reactionary emotion.

PillowBlaster laid out his concern that the ZDoom moderators - many of whom just so happen to be trans themselves - could possibly be falling into this cycle; either because they were themselves afraid of being called bigots, or because they are actually petty enough to sling the word to silence others. He held that others ought to speak up about it and voice their dissent, regardless of who the wrongdoer is.

Like PillowBlaster said, "... it's not a 'phobia or 'ism to notice such things and to air your grievances...".

With all that in mind, considering how quickly PillowBlaster was banned and his comment censored, it's absolutely reasonable now to think that the fears which PillowBlaster expressed in his statement may indeed be true... and that's honestly scary.

Announcement: Changes in Forum Administration

I believe this current thread has run its course; pretty much everything that could be said, has been. I'll leave it open for another 3-4 hours, then I'm going to lock it, as I'd like us to focus on moving forward from here.

Oi, Cali... I would invite you to read my explanation of what PillowBlaster had meant with his words (which I have placed above your quote here for convenience's sake). I believe PillowBlaster expressed himself clearly and administration at the time had misconstrued his words (impossible to tell if intentional or not without proper context), and thus I would like to advocate for the removal of the warning he was left with.

If you feel the warning should stand, so be it... but I would appreciate it if you consider this before then.

Thank you for your time.

[Crazy_Deer]

I really can't see how it was "misconstrued". It was very poorly worded at best.

[Caligari87]

I hear you and I saw the explanation, thank you. I considered that when taking my actions.

In this case, I feel it's important for the warning to remain. Not because I believe PB's words were intentionally malicious, but rather because whatever the intent they did hurt some people, and I want to encourage a little more forethought next time. I want to stress that not every moderation is necessarily a punishment, and this by itself will not affect PB's standing on the forum. The warning will fall off and be forgotten in a couple months automatically anyway, so this isn't a permanent stain either.

[DoomKrakken]

Excellent, thank you.