First time mapping, what can go wrong?

[Riordian]

Hi there, my name is Stan, and first and foremost, i want to wish you all a happy New Year!

I've been playing Doom WADs on and off for about 2 years now. Seeing the amaizing work done by this community over the years and with my ever groing addiction for this game, it was only a matter of time to start thinking about building something myself. In fact i've been thinking about it since the very first megawad i've played, which was Alien Vendetta. Only few maps in and i was already blown away, thinking to myself, "Wow, you can learn to do this with an editor tool?". Imagine my reaction when in the following months i was introduced to projects like BTSX, Valiant and other masterpieces. Of course, by no means do i expect to reach such high levels of creativity and knowledge... i'm actually quite fond of the classic stuff, the old school tech bases, the castles and the hell-ish environment that vanilla Doom and Doom 2 assests can provide. For me it will be enough (sort of) to learn how make basic maps, and to try to progress from there when i feel confortable to try something more complex. I don't know if the idea of making maps will get me hooked in the long term, or it will end but being just a momentary hobby that i'll abandon in a month or too... I relly can't, but damn, i have to try it now or never!

Long story short, today is the day i finally decided to install the Ultimate Doom Builder and start with the basics. Of course i had to watch or read some tutorials first, which is something i've attempted to do in the past without much success. Watching extensive tutorials can get overwhelming and counterproductive, so i decided to take it step by step and build my "trial map" in phases... meaning i would watch a tutorial video on how to get started, then implement everything from the video on my map, save it, then watch the next tutorial video and continue to add the newly acquired knowledge to the map, and so on, until i have a simple but complete and fully functional map, ready for testing.

However, i might've gotten a bit ahead of myself. Let me explain what i did first. So i've opened my builder and i set the configuration to "Boom: Doom 2 (Doom Format)", because that's what most tutorials suggest for starters like me... now i'm thinking that might have been a mistake. The fist tutorial i've watched to get me started with my map is actually very good and i'm planning to continue watching more tutorials from the same guy. Here it is:

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[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EucWtn_ ... vidXNewton[/youtube]

So... i did not recollect that he used the GZDoom (UDMF Format), and that's where my problem may be comming from. I've proceded to make my basic map, by implementing most the techniques (didn't get to do all of them, because i realize i have a problem) from this one video. I've made a starting room, i've tried to blend textures in a way that i find to be visually pleasing, while only using vanilla assets. At the begninng i only added the Doom2.wad to the process, thinking that this will automatically give me access to both Doom 2 and Doom 1 assets. Of course, i was wrong, and after i've spend around an hour of slowly getting used to the controls of the editing tool, i've decided that i should add the Doom1.wad as well. That gave me access to all the original assest and even made me think of adding the Plutonia and Evilution wads too... however, i didn't had the chance to do that before all went wrong. While i was building the starting room of the map, i was constantly testing the results by loading the map directly from the builder through LZDoom, and everything looked alright, no complaints, no missing textures. So after about two and half hours, i've decided to take a break for the day, and i saved the map, but then i decided to run a test outside of the builder, again with the LZDoom. So i did, but now the Doom 1 assests that i've used are missing. I loaded the map once again throught the builder and ran a test with LZDoom, and once again everything is where it should be, nothing is missing. What could be the cause of this? Can i solve it without having to start all over?

So here's what i did... these are the testing screenshots i took with the map being ran through LZDoom from within the Ultimate Doom Builder.

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https://i.imgur.com/qdmzNQi.png

https://i.imgur.com/Z0OOhqI.png

This is what happens when the builder is closed and i start the map as any other iwad.

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https://i.imgur.com/oZFyKg2.png

I'll be using this topic for furter questions i might have during my learning process to become an amateur mapper. As soon as i have a somewhat working map, i'll upload it, in case someone is willing to give it a test and provide critique... it probably won't be soon though, junging by my current speed of nearly 3 hours just to make some walls. I haven't even thought about lighting, item and monster placement yet... not to mention what the rest of the level layout will be. For now i'd be very happy if you can tell me that i didn't screw this room and there's an easy solution to make the Doom 1 textures visible. I really don't wish to start this map all over.

[ramon.dexter]

The blue checkered pattern is when gzdoom cannot find the used texture. So you're loading your custom textures into editor, and not into gzdoom. How does your load order look?

And for what tutorials suggest, the boom is not a good advice (at least from my point of view). You're using gzdoom, so don't bother with boom limitations a go straight to UDMF (gzdoom: doom2(udmf)). UDMFformat offers the most features and has the least limitations. Some could say it's too much for a beginner, but I really don't understand the point of learning restricted doom format mapping (and learn many bad habits that comes with such limitations). I've started straight with UDMF and had no problems.

[Riordian]

Thanks for the reply.

I was afraid i've made a poor choice, but i can only blame myself for trying to learn as i go. Well... first lesson learned i guess. I had my suspisions that i'll have to scrap the map, and start all over. What a shame... it was starting to take shape, and i even tried to do some fancy lighting:

https://i.imgur.com/K6bZSVQ.png

Now it's back to the drawing board. I will redo this room from scratch, and i think i can do it better this time, with less sectors and lines. i only have to figure out how to import all the Doom, Plutonia and Evilution assets, as i believe they are fair game for mapping (correct? I don't want to make a wrong step), since they are official releases and are quite old. I'm suprised to see how little Doom 2 has to offer, Doom 1 has the better terminals and computer screens, and that's the stuff i want if this grows into something more than just one small map.

To your question, i first loaded the Doom2.wad, then the Doom.wad.

[Guest]

I did a lot on the map in the last two days, not without nerves. I decided not to import any non-Doom 2 textures, as i've read somewhere that it is considered a "bad habit" among the Doomers, and in some cases, maybe even illegal. That being said i'm so out of words for the lack of variety at my disposal, I have no idea how the id guys made 70 (for both games) maps with these bare-bones textures. I definitely have to replay Doom 1 and 2 again soon.
For my map, It is clear by now that i want to make tech base, but this is where the textures lack the most. There's barely any ceilings and floors that fit the theme. Though i see a lot of textures for great medieval and hell-ish levels. Still, i want to start with tech bases, and if this becomes a hobby and the ambition of a megawad arises, i would like to do 10 tech-base, 10 medieval and 10 hell levels.
As of right now, chances of me even completing this one map seem far-fetched, as i'm afraid i might've already broken it... after A LOT of work, i've finally got to the point where i decided to make a secret outdoors area for my level. And this is where i got into big trouble - my sky texture doesn't work. Yes, i'm using the default Sky1 texture of Doom 2, but the way it shows in the level is all messed up. I've read it's normal to look like this inside the Doom Builder, and it should be okay when i load the level with GZDoom, but when i do it, it's still messed up. I've read a suggestion to create a small sector outside of the map set the sky there on lower elevation, but that still doesn't work... or i'm screwing it up. I'm afraid that i've done something wrong with the map, and it's irreversibly broken. The worst part of it all, i'm still so clueless, there's no way me to identify the problem by myself

So here it is, my map about 70% done. Over half of the areas are not populated yet. I have big plans for the big control room that contains the red key, which is needed for the exit door. The exit door itself is functional, but there is no exit button yet... in other words, it is an unfinished level, but it can be played and tested. There are also 3 working secrets.

If someone can take quick look and tell me what could be the problem? Is the level too high on elevation, maybe?

https://www.mediafire.com/file/fnbmhpvm ... 1.wad/file

[Riordian]

^I didn't even notice that i posted the above as a guest, i thought i was with my profile. Anyway, forget about the link above, i'm nearly done with my first map... i'm still trying to figure out how to fix the sky, and still i can't find anything on the internet to solves my problem. Now i'm posting the completed testing version of the map without a sky texture. I really want to import a custom sky for this and future maps, as i decide they'll take place at nigh, because i really liked the black empty void, when there is no sky texture. However, not having a texture there will be unacceptable to most people, and besides that, i want to learn how to fix it.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/blp6i9xs ... 1.wad/file

I'm getting more and more obsessed with the idea of making a megawad. I had no idea that mapping could be this much fun, and right now, i can't see myself getting tired of it anytime soon. So this will serve as the starter map of my project. I tested it myself i few times, changed and aligned a few textures here and there, the control room looks a lot different than the one in the old link. When it comes to enemies, i avoided placing any high level monsters, because it's meant to be the first map of a full game. However, It is a bit slaughtery with a monster count of 250. It is mostly imps and hit scanner that fight among each other, should be easy enough for all types of players. I haven't implemented difficulty levels yet, first i'm hoping to get some feedback, most importantly about my sky texture problem.

[Kappes Buur]

A good start
except for the missing outdoor sky texture

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since you are mapping for UDMF you could employ a skybox

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https://www.mediafire.com/file/asse7dzr ... c.wad/file

[Riordian]

^Hey thanks for trying it out. It's still not a final version, of course. I might lower the enemy count, even though it's fun to see them kill each other. Also in the version i've posted, the starting room has the wrong floor, i must have accidentally replaced it while i was using the auto align option on the brown floor from the nearby corridor that leads to the staircase and balcony with the exploding barrels. The room should be with the blue carpet with the UAC logo, and was the first thing i've textured in this map.

Most importantly, i finally a working sky! Not without outside help of course. The kind people on Jimmy Padock's discord solved my issue. It was so simple, yet so easy to get it wrong... So i was using the SKY1 file instead of the F_SKY1 which is the one that does sky magic. I'm cutting myself some slack here, how could i have known to use the F_SKY? I didn't ever remember it being among the options, It's a beginners trap. Okay, now i'm relieved and can continue with my project.

[Riordian]

@Kappes Buur, this looks amazing, what do i have to do to get such skybox? I hope i don't have to import something with Slade, as i'm completely clueless there as well Honestly, i don't mind the old school sky look, i just don't like the Doom 2 skies. I really want that red/orange sky from Thy Flesh Consumed for the tech bases and night sky for the medieval maps, and i'll try to import custom skies later down the line, as it is a post-production trick from what i'm reading.

[ramon.dexter]

Well, gzdoom supports gl skyboxes. You've got to provide the textures for such skybox and define such skybox in GLDEFS lump.

More here:
https://zdoom.org/wiki/Skybox
https://zdoom.org/wiki/GLDEFS#Skybox_definitions

And yes, SLADE3 is required for this, if you're making a .wad map only project.
If your project involves custom graphics, sounds, actor defs, etc., I strongly advise learning and using a directory for such project. It allows much better project management, since wad namespaces are confusing, especially for beginners.

More here:
https://zdoom.org/wiki/Using_ZIPs_as_WAD_replacement

[Kappes Buur]

Concerning skies in DOOM there are two types,
1. those as done in DOOM IWADS, DOOM2.wad, TNT.WAD, PLUTONIA.wad
where 1 or more textures of varying size(s) are displayed for each circular quadrant
2. a spherical skybox as found in DOOM3

I have a couple of tutorials floating around in webspace outlining how to construct such skyboxes
a. A Sky is a Sky is a Sky A new Sky skybox
for 3D skyboxes as found in DOOM3, made by Kothic Skies
b. 3D skyboxes made for Counter-Strike by Mr. Who, published in gamebanana

[Riordian]

@ramon.desxter, @Kappes Buur, thank you both for the tips and links, i will have to take a look at them one at a time. For now, i have decided to stick to vanilla, as i don't own any custom textures, and as for the transferring of files from the other Doom wads... as much as would like to do so, i've read that this can cause issues if i decide to upload my maps in idgames... which i would really like to do at some point, even if i never get to 30, or even 10. As much as i am still learning, i'd still want to share my attempts, even if they end up being disliked.

Speaking of which, Map02 is in progress now, it's more abstract and intricate than the first one, or at least that's what i'm trying to do.

[Riordian]

It's time to share my first "SERIOUS" map, where i really put a lot of effort and thought into the design. Have i done a good job? I don't know, but i am liking it, because it's weird and abstract and mixes a lot of styles in one, you have claustrophobia and wide open nearly slaughter-ish encounters. It should come as no surprise, as these are the types of maps i like, but i never like pure slaughter maps from start to finish.
My main focus here was the architecture of the level itself, because as it turns out, my favorite part of the whole mapping process is the visual aspect over the gameplay... making levels that transform in shapes and sizes when you backtrack through them is what has fascinating me about such maps for years, and now i'm trying to learn how to make them myself. There were a few mistakes of course,. For example, i still leave a lot of unnecessary lines and vertices, that serve no purpose, but when i try to delete them, i always end up deleting a bunch of my map... thank god for the undo option, and even with it, i still panic every time when i see 50 lines disappear in a second But i'm learning slowly. I just hope these unwanted lines and dots will not cause any bugs in the long run.

So this is Map 02, which as for now is my Magnum Opus (in my catalog of 2 maps total). A lot harder than the first one, with large scale battles and a full roster of enemies (minus one). I've manage to beat it twice, with saves, the second time with only one death, but i also had quite a few attempts where i was getting destroyed, and had to question the balance of ammo, power ups and enemies... I ended up adding more stuff for the player as a result, and now i think it has better balance and flow, but it is good? There's no way for me to tell, i'm biased. I also have to mention that i'm not a very good Doom player, to be able to judge the difficulty of a map, so a second opinion will be most helpful if i am to improve this one. Or maybe it doesn't need any improvement? I hope so. I'll try to share it to more people. From my runs, so far i haven't encountered any major errors other than the occasional misaligned texture, so it is a perfectly playable and beatable adventure. If you give it a shot, please let me know what you think of the overall balance, the design, and what i should change in the future.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/yrss2hsg ... 2.wad/file

PS - One thing comes to mind, the end portal is suspended on platform over a large lake of toxic waste, if you fall down, there is no teleport to take you back up, but there is a Hazard Suit wich you can take and and find an entrance from the other side of the base. I haven't yet gotten to the point of learning teleporter, but fo map 3, i'll do it.

[ramon.dexter]

Arena type of map. Definitely not my cup of tea.

[Riordian]

@ramon dexter, what is your cup of tea? Maybe i'll try to make something in that vein next, it'll be interesting

[ramon.dexter]

Wel, generally old doom1&2 type of gameplay. So, don't lock player in arenas, where player is pushed to kill a group of spawned monsters in order to progress. I understand that it's present trend in shooters, but I more like the old gameplay. Just take a look at doom2's map02. You begin in small area, where there are 3 zombiemen. You can fight them, but if youwant, you can avoid them, open the door, avoid shotgunguy amd just push the button to open the first door. Don't forceplayer to fight. Don't connect opening a door to killing a monster, until it's boos type of monster or situation (by bosstype, I mean a higher tier monster, not specifically cyberdemon. When there are imps,bosscould be knight of hell, and viceversa. Higher tier monster than the supports).
edit: But please don't use me as a hard reference. The best way of this would be to combine such approaches in a map. So, make a map with fluid gameplay, but some places could be done in the arena way. Something like "wait until lift/train arrives", "wait until the charge goes off", etc. Make it interesting and believable. Not something like "shove 10 monsters on player and repeat three times" - this approach comes boring pretty quickly.