Kriegspfad

[combolynch]

I have a suggestion:

I think Starting Pistol (Luger P08) must have infinite ammo. Because we need a weapon to use on weak enemies and preserve ammunition.

I think it will balance the gameplay better.

EDIT:

Pheew, ok, my notes so far. I did more testing with infinite luger ammo. (I did it myself I couldn't wait hehe)

-Chainsaw can replaced with Revolver. With new ammo type Magnum.
-Second Plasma Gun replacement. Possibly StG44 (also could be option to choose which will spawn in map for player. (fe: 1. flamewerfen, 2. stg44, 3. both)
-Walther PK4 and Luger P08 could be starting weapons for player to choose and they have infinite ammo.

[GoalDude-00]

What's the minimum GZD/LZD version required?

Not sure about GZDoom since I haven't used it in well over two years, but I'm on the latest LZDoom (3.88b)and this runs with no issues in it. Hope it helps.

[Ac!d]

I think Starting Pistol (Luger P08) must have infinite ammo. Because we need a weapon to use on weak enemies and preserve ammunition.

Use the knife instead. I won't make a Luger P08 or an other weapon with infinite ammo.

-Chainsaw can replaced with Revolver. With new ammo type Magnum.
-Second Plasma Gun replacement. Possibly StG44 (also could be option to choose which will spawn in map for player. (fe: 1. flamewerfen, 2. stg44, 3. both)

All the weapons are here. I won't make new ammo types, and even less new weapons.

-Walther PK4 and Luger P08 could be starting weapons for player to choose and they have infinite ammo.

The alt-fire of the Walther P38 enable/disable a silencer. And just for that, I don't think I will make this gun a starting weapon.

[combolynch]

I think Starting Pistol (Luger P08) must have infinite ammo. Because we need a weapon to use on weak enemies and preserve ammunition.

Use the knife instead. I won't make a Luger P08 or an other weapon with infinite ammo.

-Chainsaw can replaced with Revolver. With new ammo type Magnum.
-Second Plasma Gun replacement. Possibly StG44 (also could be option to choose which will spawn in map for player. (fe: 1. flamewerfen, 2. stg44, 3. both)

All the weapons are here. I won't make new ammo types, and even less new weapons.

-Walther PK4 and Luger P08 could be starting weapons for player to choose and they have infinite ammo.

The alt-fire of the Walther P38 enable/disable a silencer. And just for that, I don't think I will make this gun a starting weapon.

I mean mod would be more balanced but I dunno, it's your mod. Of course I'm talking about pistol start playtype and fighting with against a horde of enemies with knife is the last thing you would want. Don't get me wrong but 4 weapons uses the same ammo are also limits you to use just one of them (Sten, mp40, luger, walther). That's why I gave those suggestions. But of course it's not my mod. Also about my third note: You can add silencer to luger too.

Hellrider inspired me to use two starting weapons
And High Noon Drifter inspired me about Plasma Rifle spawn selection and infinite starting weapon ammo.

[ZikShadow]

I'm never really one for infinite ammo starting weapons myself, preferring resource management, so I'll have to disagree as well in that regard. The knife works just fine for emergencies.
Better to have a weapon with limited ammo that's versatile than one with infinite ammo that you'll never use against more powerful primaries or end up overusing to save ammo for other weapons.

An example of the latter, I'm reminded of Aliens Eradication's release betas and how the starting pistol used to have unlimited ammo. It was a good weapon, too! Decent power, fast reload, near hitscan speed for the projectile, & 12 rounds per mag. Ended up playing through a whole campaign with it to save ammo with practically no encounters that challenged me enough to swap guns. Was displeased enough with such an arcadey weapon for a survival horror themed mod that I suggested to the dev and even help integrate limited ammo pistol along with a knife for that mod myself. Thankfully it was accepted.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... -51-22.mp4
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... -57-30.mp4
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... -42-37.mp4

[combolynch]

I've never really one for infinite ammo starting weapons myself, preferring resource management, so I'll have to disagree as well in that regard. The knife works just fine for emergencies.
Better to have a weapon with limited ammo that's versatile than one with infinite ammo that you'll never use against more powerful primaries or end up overusing to save ammo for other weapons.

An example of the latter, I'm reminded of Aliens Eradication's release betas and how the starting pistol used to have unlimited ammo. It was a good weapon too, decent power, fast reload, near hitscan speed for the projectile. Ended up playing through a whole campaign with it to save ammo. Was displeased enough that I suggested to the dev and even help integrate limited ammo pistol along with a knife for that mod myself. Thankfully it was accepted.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... -57-30.mp4

I understand. Of course we need to use every weapon that mod gave us. That's why I said at least slot 2 and slot 4 could use different ammo. Not realistic maybe since they both use 9mm. But this is doom Also I can't stop watching your hideous destructor playthroughs

Edit: Yeah, in survival horror mods, it is not a good idea to give pistol infinite ammo and make too arcady.

[ZikShadow]

I will agree on the possible redundancy of having multiple slot weapons that share ammo that overlap in purpose. The pistols, shotguns, SMGs, even the rifles to some extent.
I expected something like the Kar having the scope for the alt and the G43 having the rifle nades, but it turns out that both share the ability. Granted, it might be because both replaces the RL spawns, but it could be handwaved by moving the Kar to the possible supershotgun spawn instead.
Making each weapons' abilities more distinct would be good to both give more reasons for players to switch weapons on the field to suit their needs, combat dynamics and all, but also keep the guns from being dusted when a better one rolls around.

For example, the Luger and the P38 pretty much share the exact same method of fire and accuracy, but the P38 has a higher rate of fire and has the ability to use a suppressor. Why would the player then use the Luger? How does one make the two distinct?

A possible approach would be to have:

Luger
- Hold fire to continuously shoot.
- Not as great accuracy but high rate of fire.

P38
- Semi auto. Needs to tap to rapid fire.
- Great accuracy, kinda required for a stealth pistol.
- Suppressor.

In which case, players would use the former when a starting map starts rough but would use the latter if they wanted to keep things hush-hush or if they want to make an accurate shot. This could be enforced further by having the suppressor non-removable.

There's a fair bit more that I could go off of, like the Trenchgun effectively superseding the BA5 'cause of the slamfire feature while still keeping the superior accuracy, but I'll wait to see if Ac!d's interested in pursuing such an effort or if the plan's to keep all of it this way.

[combolynch]

I will agree on the possible redundancy of having multiple slot weapons that share ammo that overlap in purpose. The pistols, shotguns, SMGs, even the rifles to some extent.
I expected something like the Kar having the scope for the alt and the G43 having the rifle nades, but it turns out that both share the ability. Granted, it might be because both replaces the RL spawns, but it could be handwaved by moving the Kar to the possible supershotgun spawn instead.
Making each weapons' abilities more distinct would be good to both give more reasons for players to switch weapons on the field to suit their needs, combat dynamics and all, but also keep the guns from being dusted when a better one rolls around.

For example, the Luger and the P38 pretty much share the exact same method of fire and accuracy, but the P38 has a higher rate of fire and has the ability to use a suppressor. Why would the player then use the Luger? How does one make the two distinct?

A possible approach would be to have:

Luger
- Hold fire to continuously shoot.
- Not as great accuracy but high rate of fire.

P38
- Semi auto. Needs to tap to rapid fire.
- Great accuracy, kinda required for a stealth pistol.
- Suppressor.

In which case, players would use the former when a starting map starts rough but would use the latter if they wanted to keep things hush-hush. This could be enforced further by having the suppressor non-removable.

There's a fair bit more that I could go off of, like the Trenchgun effectively superseding the BA5 'cause of the slamfire feature while still keeping the superior accuracy, but I'll wait to see if Ac!d's interested in pursuing such an effort or if the plan's to keep all of it this way.

That came to my mind too, like you have auto shot on pump action shotgun. But also have another semi-auto shotgun. Super Shotgun could be a more interesting weapon. While shotgun have his 2 fire modes ability. Also you are right about pistols too. We'll see in the next update. Let's stay tuned.

[ZikShadow]

Ended up typing the whole lot anyways. Feel free to ignore if things aren't fitting to the final vision and the like, but I still have to get it off of my chest.

BA5 vs Trenchgun

---

Let's assume that you still want to keep the slamfire thing going. There's a few ways to keep it while still making the BA5 relevant.

Method 1.
- Primary fire shoots gun, altfire pumps gun.
- If primary fire is held while gun is pumped, fire another shell after you hear the pump sound finishes. Player must hit altfire again to pump another shell in and continue slamfire.
- BA5 is practically automatic compared to the Trenchgun's fiddlier mechanics. Terrible accuracy can be kept.

Method 2. Might require recoil mechanics, but could be substituted by accuracy penalties.
- Turn off autofire for the Trench's slamfire but keep it on for the BA5. This'll ensure players have to time right when the pump ends to keep up fire rate vs BA5's easier handling.
- Every shot in slamfire mode moves erratically 'cause you're not aiming while slamfiring.
- The BA5 retains accuracy in its semi auto fire vs Trenchie's slapdash firing technique.

MP40/I vs Sten

---

MP40/I
- 2 magazines instead of 1 pretending to be 2. Altfire swaps magazine. Has indicator to show which mag is being used. Sprite has to be modified slightly to show that it has double mags to tell players that it's not just a one magazine gun. Try this on for size: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... WP3PA0.png
- A single reload action only reloads one of the magazines. Players have to reload the gun in both modes to have the full capacity.
- Better accuracy, but slower rate of fire.

Sten
- Suppressed. I hope you kept that other frame with the bolt forward.
- Faster.
- Horrendous accuracy. The British went with this because they had no other choice.

Kar98k vs Gewehr-43

---

Kar98k
- Powerful shot.
- Less-than-perfect accuracy unscoped. Perfect accuracy while scoped.
- Has a scope.
- Slow, reloads 1-by-1. Best used for sniping than actual hands on firefights.

Gewehr-43
- Just as powerful shot. I don't wanna have a repeat of BoA where I use the K98k over the G43 arbitrarily 'cause one has better damage.
- Moderate accuracy.
- Does not wield a scope, but instead has rifle grenades. The weapon you want to use to kill Icon of Sins with. Visible rifle grenade in the idle frame.
- Fast, reloads with a magazine.

If I may add a particularly lengthy suggestion:

---

Differentiate some of the frames in the current reloading sequences. I don't mean angled reloads, heavens no. That would require too much newly drawn sprites.
I mean more something along the lines to prevent the reloads from feeling utterly stiff. A frame where the left hand is removed from the gun to imply the player moving to reload the magazine, a frame where either the left hand or the right hand holds the bolt indicating a rechamber, that sort. Fairly low effort, but alongside offsets, they can surprisingly bring more life to centered reloads.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... -53-57.mp4

This clip here shows an example that I used in my BoA addon. They're practically Nazis!-style reloads, but I replace the frames with the modified ones instead of keeping them magic handwavey.
The BA5 has the left hand vanish in the reloading frames to indicate shell loading, but appear in the cocking sequence to imply the player moving their right hand to rechamber the gun while the left hand holds the shotgun. The Sten is angled to imply mag replacing and a bolt pull with the left hand, same base Sten sprite, didn't add any new ones. The K98k is hidden in the reload sequence 'cause you kinda need the right hand to load in rounds. And so on, and so forth.

The timing for the K98k's reloading starting foley is a bit off. Might wanna move the playsounds a bit earlier.

Lastly, there's no ammo tracking in the Venom Gun's belt, making it look rather silly when you run out of ammo but the belt's still visible. A fix might be needed for that, if not just lowering the Venom Gun's offsets to hide it.

[Dr_Cosmobyte]

Another thing that could be made to differentiate both shotguns is increasingly accuracy loss. First BA5 shot has better accuracy, each successive shot decreases accuracy, trenchgun could only have it in slamfire.

[Ac!d]

Ended up typing the whole lot anyways. Feel free to ignore if things aren't fitting to the final vision and the like, but I still have to get it off of my chest.

Another thing that could be made to differentiate both shotguns is increasingly accuracy loss. First BA5 shot has better accuracy, each successive shot decreases accuracy, trenchgun could only have it in slamfire.

These are very interesting ideas that I'm taking notes.

Shotguns : I will make a system for the "slamfire" like in Final Dommer's HellBound Shotgun (holding down fire long enough) and accuracy loss.
SMGs : I've tried making a suppressed pickup sprite for the STEN by using the sprites of the Walther P38, but I'm not happy with the results.
Rifles : I will remove the rifle grenades for the Kar98k, like I did in test versions. I will need frames which show the G43 with a rifle grenade attached to it.

I will see for adding hands on reload sequences.


Thank you so very much for the feedback.

[combolynch]

Ended up typing the whole lot anyways. Feel free to ignore if things aren't fitting to the final vision and the like, but I still have to get it off of my chest.

Another thing that could be made to differentiate both shotguns is increasingly accuracy loss. First BA5 shot has better accuracy, each successive shot decreases accuracy, trenchgun could only have it in slamfire.

These are very interesting ideas that I'm taking notes.

Shotguns : I will make a system for the "slamfire" like in Final Dommer's HellBound Shotgun (holding down fire long enough) and accuracy loss.
SMGs : I've tried making a suppressed pickup sprite for the STEN by using the sprites of the Walther P38, but I'm not happy with the results.
Rifles : I will remove the rifle grenades for the Kar98k, like I did in test versions. I will need frames which show the G43 with a rifle grenade attached to it.

I will see for adding hands on reload sequences.


Thank you so very much for the feedback.

You're welcome, one last feedback I promise Can (Luger, Walther) and (Mp40 and Sten) use different ammo types? I know they use 9mm in real life but it prevents you to use the full arsenal mod gives you. 10mm for slot 4 for example. 9mm for slot 2. I don't say "infinite ammo". That was wrong of me.

[ZikShadow]

I already mentioned how distinct use for the weapons would practically force players to use the other weapons, so there's no need to dilute the ammo spawns with ones that the other guns might not be able to use.

Anyways, try this for the G43. The length of the gun won't make the rifle grenade super obvious, but it's different enough from the regular idle frame that pedants (like me) are probably going to notice.

SMGs : I've tried making a suppressed pickup sprite for the STEN by using the sprites of the Walther P38, but I'm not happy with the results.

I tried doing the same thing myself, and it doesn't look particularly bad. What's the kicker?

[PresBarackbar]

I'm getting the following error from the latest version:

Script error, "acid_Kriegspfad-main.zip:zscript.txt" line 26:
Include script lump ZScript/Weapons/VenomGun.txt not found

[Ac!d]

I'm getting the following error from the latest version:

Script error, "acid_Kriegspfad-main.zip:zscript.txt" line 26:
Include script lump ZScript/Weapons/VenomGun.txt not found

I've renamed the file. It's fixed now.

- Added silenced sprites for the STEN. (alt-fire enable/disable the silencer)
- Removed the alt-fire for the Trench-gun. Hold down fire for the slam-fire mode.
- Edited Kar98k (changed alt-fire and removed the use of rifle grenades) and Gewehr 43. (added a new sprite)
- Removed the weapons icons in the HUD.
- Decreased the max. amount of shotgun shells, rifle ammo and MG ammo, and 9mm ammo will spawn more frequently on every ammo spawn (except backpacks)

I'm currently working on an alt-fire for the MP40/1. It will take a lot of my time for designing the code, make it functional, and release it.