3D Models?

Mantis · Post by **Mantis** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:29 pm

I don't think this is possible but i think just came up with an idea...

Is it possible to have actual 3D Characters (3D model zombie, demon, etc.) inside doom?

Imagine... an actual 3D ZDoom!

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:40 pm

That's reserved to OpenGL ports. With a Doom-style software renderer it can't be done.

David Ferstat · Post by **David Ferstat** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:47 pm

Sorry to disappoint you, Mantis, but Zdoom does not, currently, support 3D characters. Also, Randy Heit (who writes it) doesn't have it anywhere near the top of his list of priorities.

If you want this feature, I suggest you try out Doomsday, Risen3D or Vavoom.

Edit: Curses! Beaten by Graf!

Chilvence · Post by **Chilvence** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:51 pm

Of course, if you feel like waiting, ZDoomGL should support them eventually.

Lexus Alyus · Post by **Lexus Alyus** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:25 am

Chilvence, get yer ass over to tormentors project and finish that script!

QBasicer · Post by **QBasicer** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:49 am

Well, change the renderer then!

David Ferstat · Post by **David Ferstat** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:08 am

charris wrote:Well, change the renderer then!

I hope you intended a

to go with that.

Changing the renderer is non-trivial; I'll assume that you know this, and simply forgot to let us know that you were joking.

The alternative is that you have no idea just how integrated the renderer is in the program; you don't change the renderer without a lot of work.

QBasicer · Post by **QBasicer** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:32 am

I was not joking. And I know how integrated it is, but think of all the new stuff you could have...

3d models, true 3d, etc.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:50 am

ZDoomGL!

The problem with this is that many of the old rendering tricks won't work anymore.

Post by **Enjay** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:11 am

charris wrote:...but think of all the new stuff you could have...

And all the old tricks that would break and become unusable.

(as Graf indicated.)

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:14 am

But they shouldn't be used in new maps anyway. For most of those crude hacks ZDoom offers a clean alternative. On the other hand ZDoomGL should at least try to handle the simple stuff. Self referencing sectors are easy to detect and there should be no problem whatsoever to render them properly in GL.

Post by **Enjay** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:23 am

Graf Zahl wrote:But they shouldn't be used in new maps anyway.

True. I don't think I have used any of them in a newer Zdoom map because there is always a newer, better and more legal way to do things. However, I'm still not convinced that the best way to play Doom is with a 3D accelerated port. I do like ZdoomGL and Risen3D. I think they are doing great things. I still like my software Zdoom better though. To me it Doom simply doesn't look right in OpenGL.

Mind you, I've just DL'd the hi-res textures from the Doom retexturing project and, although some of them are a bit shonky, it does make a huge difference to the way Doom looks. Perhaps one of my objections to openGL ports is that the original, low res Doom textures are just too low res and blocky to allow OpenGL to do its magic well enough and you can get that horrible blurry effect when you go close to the walls etc. Use hi-res textures and the whole thing is much prettier and looks far more like it was meant for OpenGL IMO.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:53 am

Enjay wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:But they shouldn't be used in new maps anyway.
True. I don't think I have used any of them in a newer Zdoom map because there is always a newer, better and more legal way to do things. However, I'm still not convinced that the best way to play Doom is with a 3D accelerated port. I do like ZdoomGL and Risen3D. I think they are doing great things. I still like my software Zdoom better though. To me it Doom simply doesn't look right in OpenGL.

My only problem is that there is no really good OpenGL port that satisfies my needs.

Doomsday is out due to lack of features.
Risen3D is better but it still has some annoying issues (like apparently a hard coded limit for light sources in a level.)
Vavoom sucks
ZDoomGL is too unfinished and too slow (and can't handle any rendering tricks at all)

I've been messing around with the PrBoom renderer for some time now (and have rewritten large portions from scratch.) Hopefully I can get somewhere with it that I can use it with ZDoom. It's by far the fastest one in relation to the other ones mentioned above which is strange considering that it is doing the least geometry 'optimizations'...

Mind you, I've just DL'd the hi-res textures from the Doom retexturing project and, although some of them are a bit shonky, it does make a huge difference to the way Doom looks. Perhaps one of my objections to openGL ports is that the original, low res Doom textures are just too low res and blocky to allow OpenGL to do its magic well enough and you can get that horrible blurry effect when you go close to the walls etc. Use hi-res textures and the whole thing is much prettier and looks far more like it was meant for OpenGL IMO.

Bah! Sacrilege!

Doom needs its original textures. I can live with the softness but those ones are mostly to radically different to be acceptable. I'd prefer a pack that used the originals and just tried to make them hi-res instead of re-inventing them.

Post by **Enjay** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:37 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Bah! Sacrilege!

Heh, probably.

Graf Zahl wrote:Doom needs its original textures. I can live with the softness but those ones are mostly to radically different to be acceptable. I'd prefer a pack that used the originals and just tried to make them hi-res instead of re-inventing them.

I too feel that Doom needs its original textures and I'm not even convinced that, for me, hi-res versions of the originals would feel right either.

So, IMO, Doom needs its original textures, but they don't look right in opengl. However, (IMO again) opengl needs hi-res textures to make the most of it and the "retextured" reinterpretations are only a little less true to the original spirit of the id textures than more accurate hi-res versions of them would be for me.

So, I'm happy and even want to play the originals using software rendering but I'm also happy to play in opengl using the "retextured" graphics.

Just the way I am I guess.

Mr. Tee · Post by **Mr. Tee** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:03 pm

3D models in DOOM are demented. They completely remove the look and feel that is DOOM.

You might as well go and play Quake instead.