FATE --- Step into the Darkness

[Enjay]

OK, finally got around to playing it. My comments about the Quake theme still stand. I also groaned a little inside when I heard the PSX sound effects. I can't count how many times that I have downloaded these as part of a mod.

However, these are three very nicely put together little maps. I really liked the way that the theme and logic of the original Quake maps were transferred across. Map01 in particular is very familiar but also different. I found the fights fun and I liked the fact that you have restricted yourself to relatively small enemies in what is intended to be the first few maps of a bigger project. The non-linearity was good because it allowed plenty of exploring but the connectivity of the areas was such that I spent very little time wandering around lost. My biggest "I don't know what to do now" period was in map03 where I had explored most of the map but still had no idea where the yellow key was (despite it not being particularly hidden) and then I just kind of stumbled upon it by accident. I also like the mix of secrets with some being quite tricky to spot but some reasonably easy. I also liked that the secrets were often not just a cupboard with something in them but an additional (albeit small) part of the map to wander through. Despite my early comments, both the textures and the sounds complimented the maps and the music also helped create the heavy, moody atmosphere that worked so well in these levels.

In short, I enjoyed playing.

I did spot a couple of minor errors. One door (I think on map02... but maybe map01) must have its texture unpegged because when the door opens, the texture doesn't move with it. Another door (on map 3 I think) doesn't have its door track lower unpegged and so it moves when the door opens. I'm sorry that I didn't take a better note of exactly where these problems are. BTW, your zip file has some odd folders in it. Are you an a Mac or something? I usually see folders like that from Macs.

It's better if the WAD is just in the root of the zip because then you can just load the zip without extracting the WAD.


Back to the music... What is it? It seems familiar but I can't place it. Is it Quake64 music?

[BurntApples]

wow thanks! i debated to myself heavily about using PSX sounds but because PSX doom was the first i had played to a great length i just enjoy them for darker maps. i see how you can agree. i will have to go through those upper/lower unpegged things. do not worry about taking better notes. i know exactly which doors you are speaking of, i think.
yes i am on a mac. a very old one hehe. i will try to fix the zipping thing if i can.

the music is actually by a friend. known her for a long time though we have never really met. it is a long story but we got to talking and i asked her if she wanted to try making some moody less music more sound effect stuff for me to try using. i guess the plan is the last i heard from her to do 16 tracks. i told her i wanted the secret levels to have their own tracks along with the first level of the episode. i swore i would not rush her so hopefully it will come out all good.
very happy to know you enjoyed the levels. map03 was painful but fun. i had a lot of plans for it that would not work because of the 2D nature of the engine. in a way i think being limited forces a unique creativity for levels. i will honestly say that for me personally map03 has a few flaws but i can hardly expect every one of my 32 planned levels to be perfect
oh i did send her links on youtube to the quake 64 and quake PC soundtrack for reference though i am not sure how much mind she paid. at least a little it would seem!
so yes beautiful feedback! will look into the things you mentioned

edit the yellow key thing is something i worried about. should i make it a little easier to spot or did you like that it did not stick out like a sore thumb?

[Enjay]

The yellow key could just be me being particularly unobservant. I didn't spot it when I started the map (and given that it is so near the start spot I do feel a bit silly).

By the time that I knew I needed a yellow key (i.e. I'd found the door) I was at the opposite side of the map. It's quite unusual to have to go right back to the start of a map to get a key and given that I didn't even realise it was there my natural instincts weren't taking me back where the key was. I think this may also be compounded by the fact that the map is physically divided in two distinct halves. It was my natural instinct to keep looking for the key in the half where the door was. If I had spotted the key from the outset, then I would have known to return to the start half of the map and I think that the problem would just have evaporated. I guess the flip side of that is that a player may spot the key but then be reluctant to leave that building until getting the key.

I certainly have to take some blame myself but making it so the player is more likely to know that the key is near the start from the outset could well stop other people making the mistake that I did. This could even be done as simply as moving the start spot a little and rotating it through 180 degrees.

Thanks for the information about the music. I really like what your friend did there. I'd be obliged if you would pass that along.

[edit]Oh yes, one other thing. What's the significance of XRII? Something to do with Xairgate?[/edit]

[edit2] And one more one more thing I assumed that jumping was not allowed in the map as some areas seemed to be set up in such a way that jumping would allow significant shortcuts. Could you confirm whether jumping is intended (and mention it in the text file too). [/edit2]

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Yeah, I know that we have many Quake-themed maps, but, why can't we have more? I like this project.

I like the simplistic detail level of this. Some layouts are organic, and everything gives that "good oldschool" felling, rare to see on nowadays megawads.

Suggestions:
The slipgate complex textures used in Map01 seems a bit weird. Not the textures itself, but because it was placed in a poor way. Looks like they were just "thrown" there. Look at this pic and you will understand what I mean, and my suggestion of how you can improve that.

---

Also, since its a Zdoom format wad, I really think that you should use some zdoom features. For example, I see some "vanilla bridges that can be lowered" that makes no sense in a Quake-themed wad. They could be replaced by true 3D floors, and not just improve the navigation, but also improve the general fell of the ambient.

---

Also, you can could add decorate actors like that brown trees from Hexen that will help a lot to improve the overall gloom felling of the scenarios.


I can send the edited wad with these modifications I did if you want.

[Enjay]

While we are talking about texture alignment...

This is a little more picky but:



The pattern on the texture here is 64 wide and it makes sense for it to match up with the 64 wide alcoves but as the shot shows, it isn't matching up. I know that the first line on the wall being angled is what throws this off but you can work around that with borders/supports and so on.

[BurntApples]

wow! how did you set up that bridge? i would love to replace all the brigdges in the current levels with ones like those.
for the support textures in screenshot 1 i was not aware people liked the look of those hehe. i can add them if you want. as for the misaligned texture in screen shot 3 i actually left it that way on purpose because it is a secret. i know i just spoiled a map secret but what you thought when you saw it exactly what i wanted players to think

edit i just noticed the texture is like that on both sectors. it was only supposed to be that way on one. keen eye! i will have to fix that!

to enjay. in III mausoleum, the super dark small one with the switch in it at the back of the map there should be a much brighter room to the right of the switch room with a teleporter that takes you back to the yellow key room. it was my intention to have that room bright so players would check it after flipping the switch and be transported back to I mausoleum where the key is. though i am not sure how well it stands out if you missed it. i might have to change it.

jumping should not break any levels. if it finds people a quicker way through a level i have no problem with it. being to controlling ruins the fun. jumping and looking is supported but not required. i have no plans to add anything that requires you to look or jump but using those features is supported by all means.

by passing along the music i am not sure what you mean. do you mean you want a copy of the music?

XRII is something my friend came up with to title her songs under artist because her name is so hard for everyone to remember. i am not sure what it means and forgot to ask. i say it ex are two but i am not sure what it really is. i could ask her if you want

oh, if you want you can send me your fixed version of the wad. getting feed back like this makes me feel good

edit the tree idea seems interesting! any help on that would be great! i would like to make this wad a zdoom like as possible with out making it seem too much like a different game than doom 2. good thing about being on the zdoom forum

[Enjay]

wow! how did you set up that bridge?

I know that the question wasn't to me but ZDoom now supports 3D floors. They work in the same way as 3D floors for GZDoom with the exception that ZDoom cannot show sloped 3D floors but GZDoom can.

[wiki]Sector_Set3dFloor[/wiki]

to enjay. in III mausoleum, the super dark small one with the switch in it at the back of the map there should be a much brighter room to the right of the switch room with a teleporter that takes you back to the yellow key room. it was my intention to have that room bright so players would check it after flipping the switch and be transported back to I mausoleum where the key is. though i am not sure how well it stands out if you missed it. i might have to change it.

Well you're probably going to laugh at this but, the first time I played, I jumped into the teleport and arrived at the destination. Not knowing where I was, I checked the automap, saw that I was back in the first half of the map, thought to myself "what the hell am I doing back here" and then promptly made my way back to the other side of the map to carry on looking for the key. If I had spotted the key early on, I think I would have made the connection that I had been teleported back to allow me to get the key but because I didn't think that the key was in that half, the thought didn't cross my mind.

jumping should not break any levels.

Thanks for that. It was this area in particular that made me think that I probably shouldn't be doing it:

but, as you said, jumping over here doesn't break any of the essential map logic.

by passing along the music i am not sure what you mean. do you mean you want a copy of the music?

Sorry, I meant pass my comments along. ie tell your friend that I really liked the music.

XRII is something my friend came up with to title her songs under artist because her name is so hard for everyone to remember.

Thanks. It was just that the other shadow messages on the floor were self explanatory (HELP, RUN) so I thought that I'd perhaps missed out on something relating to the map or game experience. BTW, the only XRII that I know of is a sporty version of the Ford Fiesta.

[BurntApples]

thanks! oh the shadows on the map particularlly XRII is just a little credit thing i did.
the thing about the 3D floors is interesting. i will try to get it working. should i stick with doom builder or move to doom builder 2? i know in the text file it says i use Yadex but that is out dated information.

i could move the player starts like suggested to reveal the key at the start of the level just in case so it might not be quite as confusing.

yes the screenshot you posted i completely intended for players to be able to jump down into that room if they wanted and i built the teleporter there for deathmatch and single player so they could get back up

as for XRII, sometime yesterday or whatever time it was for her i talked to her about soundcloud and that people liked her work on fate so later she linked me to her youtube she made. the fate sound track so far is on there and some other stuff she has done if you are interested

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCewSwlN ... ture=watch

i will be sure to tell her about the car. she will probably find it interesting!

[Dynamo]

You know, it's nice that you want to post about your projects and contribute to the community and all, but it'd be nice if you stop making up non-existing people to beg for attention. It makes the whole thread more distracting to read and is just bound to cause drama in the long run.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/6 ... nilla-wad/ after this thread one would think you would've learned your lesson. Guess not

(yes, burntapples is littletemple)

[wildweasel]

I was really hoping this thread could stay about the project instead of dredging up the Doomworld drama. From my point of view, the guy isn't hurting anybody (yet) by doing what he's doing here.

[BurntApples]

i seriously do not want any drama popping up here. no rules have been broken by me or by the person in the thread you just linked for that matter. i have absolutely no idea who that is or what his or her connection is to me. if you insist on in lighting me, please do so through private messages. this thread is about my project i am putting my heart into a long with my 'non-existant' friend. this thread is about a project i am working on in hopes that the doom community as a whole can enjoy.

certainly there is a way to get to the bottom of this with out being hostile? i wrote an email about my ban and have not gotten a reply from the head administrator. i have read through the entire thread you just linked and i have yet to notice a connection from me to 'littletemple'

as for how i am begging for attention, some one asked about the music in the wad so i told them. if i were begging for attention it would be far easier for me to lie and take credit for the music. imagine. someone who maps and makes their own music! wow!

please, back to the project. i would certainly enjoy seeing the modified version of my project because i am regretfully having trouble wrapping my head around the 3D bridges concept. i did fix the door problem in map01 along with the textures in the observation deck room and the door tracks in maps 02 and 03.

[wildweasel]

Just an FYI, BurntApples, what I just said applies to you as well: you have no reason to reply to people who are "calling you out." It'd make things much easier for you and me both if everyone could just drop that particular line of discussion.

[BurntApples]

perfectly fine by me. if people insist they can send their replies in PMs.
an updated to say i am currently drawing up plans for map04. trying to decide on a general theme but i am thinking of going with a cavern of some type to keep with the earth theme before the episode's climax levels. map05 and 06.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Here it is.
http://www.mediafire.com/?fqfxfymqaqlbufo

About 3D floors, when running Doom Builder 1 in the Zdoom Doom in Doom format map, you must give the 3d bridge sector the tag 281, and not 160 how the wiki says. It will aparently do nothing (since it will just mark as unknown function). But just give it a identification tag for the line, and the same tag for the sector that you want to make the 3D floor, and its done.

Also, I added some gloomy trees and plants. At the end of the actors lists, there will be a new section called "Decorate". You can find them there.

[BurntApples]

thanks! i just added the bridges to map 02 and 3 and added the trees. the gloomy trees work but the plants or 'state' in the list do not seem to show up in the world. i would love to give you credit for your mods in the text file. do you want me to credit you as sergeant mark IV?