Knee-Deep in ZDoom v1.1 (RC1)

[esselfortium]

I think Essel's changes look better than the original, although I personally would have just changed the red border to something less garish. There's is a better atmosphere in Essel's room because it's dark, grimy, and brown = sexy in doom mapping

I recomend adding some loose tiles or something to the floor though it looks boring

Edit: add some sloped loose tiles to the floor, it looks really cool and I havn't seen it used anywhere else, ever

You would love my z2m4 (I also used the same sloped-tile effect in SPACEDM5's Halloween level, map20, last year.)

[sirjuddington]

I have to say that essel's version is at least 100x better. Detail can't fix bad texture choices. IMO of course.

[NiGHTMARE]

I think the room could do with a bit of ceiling detail. Perhaps a couple of holes, possibly with wires dangling out?

[Penguinator]

From what I've fooled around with, I noticed two things.
1) Isle's mouse code isn't in the intermap thing. I thought someone on the KDiZD mentioned getting that implemented in 1.1.
2) At the position (-1414, 1077, 352) on z1m2, there is a secret that relies on you picking up a green armor to unlock. That should be changed to a sector action so that people with a blue armor bonus can still get the secret.

[Gez]

2) At the position (-1414, 1077, 352) on z1m2, there is a secret that relies on you picking up a green armor to unlock. That should be changed to a sector action so that people with a blue armor bonus can still get the secret.

Yes please. I mean, sure, there is a convenient nukage pool where we can dip until our armor goes below 100, but that is a bit annoying, honestly.

[unknownna]

Alright, I did a quick run through Z1M1 on ultra violence on this 1.1 RC. I took some screenshots of things that I would like you to pay attention to. The gameplay was good except for that there were hardly any shells around. Kills alot of the simple fun when you have to run around with a small pistol 3/4 of the map. Infighting is also a missed feature that gave doom a high replayability. Not too fond of the homing fireballs that are faster than the revenant ones either.

---

Small texture misalignment (s?).



HOMs.



Weird fading.



Misaligned support textures on both sides.



Same as above.



Ditto.



The way the support connects to the brown could be improved a little bit?



It's good with caves and all, but that seems like it wouldn't be able to hold itself up much longer.



A bit too dark? Brighten up a little.



Subjective opinion. This might be intentional by design, but personally, I'm not too fond of unlit light textures. I'd rather have them lit, but blinking.



This is after the sg trap. The unlit light textures just don't look good to me. BTW, the new room looks better, but if you'd be able to squeeze one border in there between the floor and the STARG textures, it'd be better. It'd make it look less oldschool by design.



Since light comes through the glass into the room, could you brighten the sector up a little? Not the main one, but where the glass is.



Self explanatory.



IMHO, light sprites, but no actual lightning might seem a bit odd. You could make the sector red, lit and blinking as some sort of "danger" type light. just an idea.



The lightning in this seems a bit odd. Suddenly pitch black.



I'd slope the dark gray borders for a less blocky design.



Another unlit light texture.



I don't like this. It seems too cramped and doesn't look good. The tiny walls between the holes. The green texture doesn't align at all to that type of detail.



Slope this as well?



Missing light sprites.



Nitpicky texture alignment.



Same as above. You can see the upper screw "cut in half".



The nukage here needs to be warped.



If you want this, lower the ceiling height to match with the green texture.



Move this texture a bit to the left if possible.



Missing light sprites.



I don't like this one too well. The walls between the holes are too thin if you know what I mean. Like toothpicks.



Missing light sprites, but might be intentional due to the blinking effect.

That's my little review of Z1M1.

Memories from the previous version.
I also didn't like the baron/knight lion's mane thing with a shield. Totally out of place in doom's brutal "bite, shoot or chew" style. It looked more like a RPG character then anything. The ssg was nice, but could have been more like doom2's in terms of speed. The grenade launcher felt totally unpredictable. Give the grenades a bit more "weight" so that it is easier to control? And that tiny goat thing with a melee attack also looked totally out of place. It would have been cool if the barons really were the last bosses instead of that quake magma thing.

But this is very impressive. I've never seen any more detailed maps then these. Quite an accomplishment you've got here. Well done!

[Graf Zahl]

Alright, I did a quick run through Z1M1 on ultra violence on this 1.1 RC. I took some screenshots of things that I would like you to pay attention to. The gameplay was good except for that there were hardly any shells around. Kills alot of the simple fun when you have to run around with a small pistol 3/4 of the map. Infighting is also a missed feature that gave doom a high replayability.

... and that won't change. The map is intentionally not as fast paced as others. You have to be (gasp!) careful and in the beginning actually think about using the shotgun. If you just blast away you are screwed.

This is something I will never understand: Once in a time a map comes along that doesn't slavishly follow the worn out Doom conventions and some people are complaining just because it isn't just the same.

[esselfortium]

@unknownna: Yeah, the red lights that stay lit when the room darkens are a bug; I had added in a bit of ACS to turn those off when the room lights went out, but it must have gotten lost due to the fact that I didn't have some of the libraries needed to compile the scripts (the intermap library, I believe).

The rocks that look like they would fall over is something that I was planning to make major changes to, like I did with the rocks in the nukage courtyard and in the start room, but I didn't get around to it and it seemed like the 1.1 release was impending (this was around July), so I just retextured them and called it a day.

As for the other things, good suggestions! There are a lot of visual oddities in z1m1, IMO, but I wasn't really sure what to do about most of them when I was working on the map this summer.

Alright, I did a quick run through Z1M1 on ultra violence on this 1.1 RC. I took some screenshots of things that I would like you to pay attention to. The gameplay was good except for that there were hardly any shells around. Kills alot of the simple fun when you have to run around with a small pistol 3/4 of the map. Infighting is also a missed feature that gave doom a high replayability.

... and that won't change. The map is intentionally not as fast paced as others. You have to be (gasp!) careful and in the beginning actually think about using the shotgun. If you just blast away you are screwed.

This is something I will never understand: Once in a time a map comes along that doesn't slavishly follow the worn out Doom conventions and some people are complaining just because it isn't just the same.

I'm not actually expecting anything to change, but considering how many people have have complained about it since KDiZD's release, that might be a sign that it could possibly be worth reassessing how successful the map was at accomplishing that intended gameplay. If you give the player the shotgun, they're just about guaranteed to expect you to (gasp!) give them shells afterwards so that they can actually use it once in a while. So somebody who doesn't already know that comes around and tries playing the map, and they run out of ammo and die.

Just saiyan'.

[unknownna]

Alright, I did a quick run through Z1M1 on ultra violence on this 1.1 RC. I took some screenshots of things that I would like you to pay attention to. The gameplay was good except for that there were hardly any shells around. Kills alot of the simple fun when you have to run around with a small pistol 3/4 of the map. Infighting is also a missed feature that gave doom a high replayability.

... and that won't change. The map is intentionally not as fast paced as others. You have to be (gasp!) careful and in the beginning actually think about using the shotgun. If you just blast away you are screwed.

This is something I will never understand: Once in a time a map comes along that doesn't slavishly follow the worn out Doom conventions and some people are complaining just because it isn't just the same.

Yeah, I've become aware of that. It's not that I want to complain. I was indeed very careful and quickly adapted to the gameplay intended for this. You can say that I was just pointing out one or two major differences that separates this from the oldschool style of play.

Edit:

@esselfortium: I don't like run out there and go "Man, this sucks! No shells!". Basically, killing groups of imps and zombiemen with a pistol just feels more like a chore. Gets more tiring then rewarding due to the time it takes to kill them. You even have to tap your fire at medium distances to ensure hits. I'm sure you really know what I mean.

[Graf Zahl]

So somebody who doesn't already know that comes around and tries playing the map, and they run out of ammo and die.

Just saiyan'.

Isn't that part of the motivation to replay and try better next time?
The thing is that many Doom players are so much expecting the fast paced gameplay they are so used to that this kind of complaint really was to be expected.

Yeah, I've become aware of that. It's not that I want to complain. I was indeed very careful and quickly adapted to the gameplay intended for this. You can say that I was just pointing out one or two major differences that separates this from the oldschool style of play.

Edit:

@esselfortium: I don't like run out there and go "Man, this sucks! No shells!". Basically, killing groups of imps and zombiemen with a pistol just feels more like a chore. Gets more tiring then rewarding due to the time it takes to kill them. You even have to tap your fire at medium distances to ensure hits. I'm sure you really know what I mean.

I know what you mean. Maybe it's just because I played the map often enough but I don't think that the amount of shells is too low. There's 2 boxes and 11 4-shells plus 2 shotguns (if you count the secret one)
Hint: If you get the secret shotgun, don't use it until you get the second one. All the saved shells are really useful against the annoying shadows later in the level.

[Phobus]

In a mod where I intended to make the pistol used more frequently, I'd make it more useful. Either more powerful or a little faster (not amazingly so in either case, obviously), just to make it that little bit more useful so that not having the shotgun isn't quite the drudge that it is now.

[Tormentor667]

Just to make things clear: We are not going to start adding large-scaled changes or change anything that was already meant to be in KDiZD 1.0. This v1.1 is only a bugfix release with very little (!) enhancements.

[Project Shadowcat]

Just to make things clear: We are not going to start adding large-scaled changes or change anything that was already meant to be in KDiZD 1.0. This v1.1 is only a bugfix release with very little (!) enhancements.

Tell that to esselfortium.

[esselfortium]

Just to make things clear: We are not going to start adding large-scaled changes or change anything that was already meant to be in KDiZD 1.0. This v1.1 is only a bugfix release with very little (!) enhancements.

Tell that to esselfortium.

Hi!

[printz]

Hey. I checked the new test version on -fast, and no, the speeds still aren't adapted. Wouldn't it be fitting for -fast games to make the custom missiles and custom melee monsters twice as fast? As it is now, regular Imps become more dangerous than tough dark imps, and Demons definitely become more of a threat than the Blood (not Mauler) ones. Original Doom missiles have the speed upgrade; the new ones don't. Same for monsters.