Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:58 am

Map01 of Doom2 seems to be one of the problematic maps I mentioned. I experienced the Imp-on-the-head, too. Definitely not good.

Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:45 am

I like imps on my head. I think Heretic was one of the first that allowed that

Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:45 pm

Heh, you like the way those Heretic Imps scratch your back?

Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:47 pm

This does not work correctly:

   fixed_t thingdropoffz = tmfloorz;
   tmfloorz = tmdropoffz;

   for (bx=xl ; bx<=xh ; bx++)
      for (by=yl ; by<=yh ; by++)
         if (!P_BlockLinesIterator (bx,by,PIT_CheckLine))
            return false;

   tmdropoffz = MAX(tmdropoffz, thingdropoffz);

tmdropoffz is adjusted by PIT_CheckLine. But all that can be done is to decrease the value which means that the last line (MAX(...)) will always reset tmdropoffz to the height of the sector the monster was in if it wasn't standing on a thing which effectively disables the entire dropoff check. This may only be done if thingdropoffz is actually coming from a thíng the actor is standing on.

Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:00 pm

You can stand on their heads, why not let them stand on your head? ;) Equal rights for imps, I say.

Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:21 pm

about monsters standing on your head, in MAP01 if you go into the one room behind the first door and stand between 2 of the platforms, one of the nombies will cross over you onto the other one (no respect :( )

Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:35 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:Maybe the alterations in the movement code due to the checks for standing on other things have a side effect [for the sarge on E1M1]...

I doubt it because:
  1. Commenting out the relevant code has no effect on his behavior, and
  2. It only has an effect when the monster has a chance to stand on something, and he's the only thing on the stairs, so there's nothing else for him to stand on.

Enjay wrote:in Doom2 Map01

I just tried that out now, and I thought it was pretty neat to have the imp walk off the lift and onto my head.

Graf Zahl wrote:Definitely not good.

Why? I think it's fun. :D

Graf Zahl wrote:Some other source port (I think Legacy but I'm not sure) uses similar checks for things standing on things and this caused a lot of odd situations.

I doubt it's that comparable. My change involved having floorz reflect the top of the actor a monster is standing on and not just the height of the tallest floor underneath the monster. Without that change, it thinks it's on top of a dropoff and won't move because its floorz is too far below its z.

Graf Zahl wrote:This does not work correctly:

I guess you are right, although monsters still won't walk over every ledge in their way.

Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:01 pm

randy wrote:
Enjay wrote:in Doom2 Map01

I just tried that out now, and I thought it was pretty neat to have the imp walk off the lift and onto my head.

Graf Zahl wrote:Definitely not good.

Why? I think it's fun. :D

I just don't think such a serious alteration of the game's behavior is good. Monsters being able to walk on bridges is ok but if they can step on everything (including the player) there *will* be problems in some maps. At least this should be compatibility optioned.

Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:03 pm

roofles that's sweet, I forsee a wad where the player must transfer imps from one platform to another on his head in order to win!

really I dont see this as too huge an issue, it's no worse than monsters 512 (or more) units below you blocking you from jumping off a cliff in doom2.exe anyway

Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:34 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:This does not work correctly:

After spending too many hours trying to figure out how to make this work as desired, it's something functional now. I was forced to restrict monsters to walking only on bridges (sorry, Cyb), since I don't want to spend days on this.

The guy in E1M1 once again gets stuck on the stairs. Fixed, I guess.

Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:37 pm

I lliiike it, this monsters being able to cross previously blocking lines.
I just played through some levels of doom2.wad and this new ability
for monsters gives the gameplay a whole new feel. New strategies
have to be developed. What a great bonus!

Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:14 pm

booh to the trouble makers. Since this is really a LOT of extra FUN, this is a good time for Randy to do a Poll. See if people really care about some old levels and what happens or be more interested in FUN. Isn't that what this is all about?

Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:49 pm

I was playing a WAD earlier today and killed a chaingunner and watched as his corpse was thrown back to where a lamp stood in the corner. It seemed to "jump" on top of the lamp and come to a stop against the walls. So now you have this thin E1M1-style lamp holding up a splattered chaingunner's corpse. Made me laugh my ass off.

Like Cyb and RL, I don't see this affecting alot of things too severly. There may be one or even two maps out there that would be completely broken because enemies can now leave places they couldn't before, but for the vast majority, the enemies will behave a little differently and that's about it. I mean, how many WADs do you know of that were broken beyond repair when the realistic thing heights change was made eons ago? Suddenly torches at the bottom of a pit don't block the player's movement over them. Blasphemy!! Personally, I haven't heard of a single case where this breaks a map, probably not so much because the cases don't exist, but because nobody really cares and the change was a good one overall. I don't see this being any different. Yeah, it'll change a few maps, but it also opens up new possibilities, such as what Cyb suggested above. Compatibility option it if possible, but don't just toss out all the new code.

That's my $0.02

Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:00 pm

After everybody has a relatively bug-free version, it will probably be a good idea to gut the physics code from Doom and start over with something manageable. As it is right now, it's spread across far too many functions with too many interdependencies and global variables. Because of this, it's produced bugs that have been far more trouble to track down than bugs in any other part of the game because it's hard to understand what the physics code is doing.