How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separately

Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:04 pm

So I know I've seen this in the IWADs, some floors lower via a switch or linedef to "activate it" , then you can raise and lower it via another linedef or switch.

What I'm trying to do is have a room where bars close behind you and you need to use a switch in the room to raise them.

Re: How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separa

Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:39 pm

You give the sector that is going to move a tag, then give lines specific actions to move the sector. The lines are linked to the sector by the tag.

So, in your example we would give the bars a tag - let's say tag #1

When you enter the room, there would be a line that you have to walk over with a door close type of action. The line action is also given tag 1. So the line tells the door (bars) to close.

At the far side of the room there is a switch. This line has been given the door open action and also given tag 1. So, when you reach the switch, you can use it to open the doors that just closed.

There are other considerations - for example, the lines (certainly the line to close the door) would need to be a single-use line rather than a repeatable line and you would also have to choose activation types for the line (walk over for the door close, player pressing use for the door open). However, exactly how you do that depends on the mapping format that you are using. If you let me know which mapping format you are using (Doom, DoomHexen or UDMF) I can whip up an example if you want.

Re: How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separa

Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:19 pm

Thanks for the hefty response! I'm mapping in the Doom format.

If possible I wanted to have the bars close behind the player via walk linedef, then require a switch to open them but they open slowly, so it takes time to fully open. Would this be possible?

Re: How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separa

Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:39 am

OK, well Doom format will limit you a little because the types of lines available, how they are triggered and the speed of sector movement are all more limited than they are in the newer formats, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. If you want your trap to take a bit longer to open, there are options - you just need to be a bit creative. For example, in the attached file, I basically do what you are asking about but there are three sets of bars guarding the exit to the room, so you have to open all three before you get out.

With the newer map formats (ZDoomHexen (though there is little reason to use that one one now) or UDMF) you can set the trigger type (walk, shoot, use, bump, monster etc) for every kind of line action and you can set the speed of any sector movement to whatever you like really.

Anyway, small example file attached.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separa

Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:03 pm

Thank you!

Is there any advantage or reason to map in non UDMF formats? I'm thinking maybe I should convert my map?

Re: How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separa

Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:32 pm

There is an advantage to map in UDMF over older formats.
But, I don't know of any advantage in older formats over UDMF. So yes, you should change the map format to udmf, if you dont want to be limited by older formats.
The older formqts are here for support of some less advanced sourceports. For example, Boom doesnt support udmf.

Re: How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separa

Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:15 am

Alexagon wrote:Is there any advantage or reason to map in non UDMF formats? I'm thinking maybe I should convert my map?


Many reasons have been given to use map formats for non_UDMF, non_GZDOOM levels:

  • I map for the original Doom/Boom format because I want to make maps to reach the greatest number of audience
  • I map for the original Doom/Boom format because it is the easiest format to map for
  • I map for the original Doom/Boom format because I do not want to use any other editor than Doombuilder2, Ultimate Doom Builder is too complicated
  • I map for the original Doom/Boom format because I am a Doom purist
  • I map for the original Doom/Boom format because I only like the low resolution renderer
  • I map for the original Doom/Boom format because I am too lazy to use anything else
  • I map for the original Doom/Boom format because I hate GZDoom

Believe or not, those are the main reasons given, mainly on the Doomworld forum, by many mappers to avoid mapping for DiHF or UDMF. UDMF is a mapping standard which is embraced by more and more sourceports.

Personally, I don't mind anybody using the mapping format they want to use. But, given that so much more can be accomplished with UDMF, it boggles my mind that anybody could prefer the original Doom/Boom formats.

After more than 20 years of playing DOOM/DOOM2 maps, 95% of original Doom/Boom maps, to me, look and feel alike. True, the layout is different and some try to make them look uptodate with new texturepacks, but they still feel the same. The same flat look and lack of lighting variation. That leaves 5% of maps which could be classified as unique and superb because the map creators have put a lot of thought and effort into the map construction.

Well, I still play Doom/Boom maps which are downloaded from here or Doomworld, but more often than not, not more than once, and consequently they find the Recycle Bin.

For me the reasons that I map for GZDoom/UDB are:

  • experiment with different construction concepts
  • the expanded action special sets
  • the ease with which new actors can be created
  • textures can be used on walls and/or ceilings/floors
  • the eyecandy of OpenGL/Vulkan
  • dynamic lights and colouring
  • ACS and/or ZSCRIPT
  • boris's plugins, Stairbuilder, 3D, Visual Mode Editing
  • etc, etc

Yes, there are also maps done in UDMF which did not really use any of the advanced features and could have been done just as well in the original mapping format, however they are mostly just showcases for first time mappers. As long as they have fun they should be encouraged and supported.

As I said above, a good map needs a lot of thought and effort, which is not accomplished overnight. Sometimes they take weeks or months, or even years. As with any complex program, to be proficient in mapping for GZDoom/UDB is a long term process.

If it can help you, take a look at the tutorials sections here and the Wiki, which are too frequently overlooked.
Last edited by Kappes Buur on Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: How can you make it so a sector lowers and raises separa

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:34 am

I pretty much agree with all of that - but then I'm not a die-hard Doom purist.

As for UDMF (or DoomHexen) being more difficult than Doom format, I've never been completely convinced by that. Yes, there are more options and, therefore, the various settings and options dialogues for line editing and sector editing are more complex - because they have to accommodate more choices. However, I feel that if you learn them from the outset, it's the older Doom format that feels weird. Why is it, for example, that I can only lower a floor by a limited sub-set of activation types and monsters can't do it at all? Why can't I align the textures above and below a window separately? I have become so familiar with UDMF that I actually found it difficult (not too difficult, obviously - more realising "oh yeah, I can't do that" every now and again) wrapping my head around the limited options available in Doom format when making the simple demo attached to this thread.

For me, day to day, the big plusses of UDMF are:
the ability to align upper, mid and lower textures separately
the ability to align floors
the ability to scale textures and flats directly in the editor

Those alone justify the format but then there are:
setting sector colour directly in the editor
setting sector fog directly in the editor
setting sound sequences directly in the editor
setting wall/floor brightness directly in the editor
setting line tags directly on the line (without the need for a special line type)

and in UDMF and Hexen format there are
scripting,
easy 3D floors
easy slopes
setting thing heights
all trigger types possible for all line actions
polyobjects to allow sliding and swinging doors (etc)

And of course, there are so many more things possible in both of those formats.

And just to revisit scripting - with a very simple script, the demo map that I posted could feel much more solid. Instead of closing three sets of bars "mechanically" by crossing lines as you enter the room, then opening the trap as you approach the key and requiring three switches to lower all three sets of bars, a scripted map might do something like:
As you enter the room, nothing special happens.
The key has been replaced by a soulsphere on the stand in the middle
A you pick up the sphere, the way out is blocked, the traps open, the music changes.
The map waits until all enemies are killed.
Once they are killed the music reverts to the normal map music, the way out is opened, a congratulatory message is put on screen and the key spawns on the plinth where the soul sphere had been.

Logic-wise not vastly different to the demo map but just much more complete and "professional" IMO.