I agree with all that; however, as I said previously, copyright is protected by international treaty. On that alone, licenses like the GPL and BSD:3 and MIT are safe; even if they are openly attacked within the United States, a win in the US does not constitute a win abroad, and ultimately treaty law always trumps local laws until which time a country pulls out of said treaty. A win in the US could potentially put the GPL under threat, sure; but first Bethesda would need some sort of interest to even begin revoking the license - and then they would have to fight the license itself in all 200-to-nearly-300 countries within which the Berne convention has been ratified. The likelihood of that doesn't even come close to exceeding one in a million. You're probably thousands of times more likely to be struck by lightning than such a thing ever happening.Twitchy2019 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:55 am I want to be clear on my intentions for making this thread. The intention was to raise the awareness of this seemingly outside affair as to the effect it would have on the Doom community and other open-source initiatives. Too often communities that have little in common beyond a very vague concept were suddenly upheaved by some third party performing a successful attack on that very concept (i.e. Open Source). Many people have echoed this sentiment already in this thread, but the idea needs repeating: The foundations and defenses open-source communities have relied upon yesterday to safe-guard that ideal cannot be relied upon tomorrow. Politics have seemingly become more partisan and extreme more now than they have ever been. This has resulted in courts in several parts of the United States becoming shopping grounds for devious actors and their lawyers looking to break through previously held standards to enforce and entrench their agendas.
Many will say that what was said in the previous paragraph is common sense. But is it going to MOTIVATE you? Motivation is quite a different beast from simply saying, "yeah, x & x is happening, so what?" I am doing my part to prevent apathy towards this situation. You can too by simply talking and discussing. If you can bring more to the table, please do so. We can use all the help we can get. We being all users of anything "Open Source."
This thread is to raise a healthy awareness and by doing so; bring forward a strong, organized coalition that can muster the resources necessary to win the fight against the possible destruction of Doom and open source. This thread is not meant to emotionally manipulate others into brazen attacks or petty arguments. We have enough of that already. I like Doom. I also like the fact that many other products have been released as a result of its popularity. I feel if the Doom community is destroyed, the foundations of nostalgia and passion for it will dwindle, causing amazing content by not only Doom authors, but developers of other games like Dusk or Amid Evil, who cite Doom as an inspiration for their games; to disappear.
Please, by all means, debate and discuss, invite more people to become motivated towards assisting the D&D community as well as holding the fort right here. We must be more united and vigilant now more than ever.
Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Aside from that, the only people ever dragged to court over the GPL in the past were those who violated it and got caught.
I'm sorry, but to me this really just alarmist bullshit of people who do not understand these things. Let's not forget that a lot of FOSS software is backed by giant corporations who have a major stake in these licenses being valid. So even in the US it is almost inevitable that those who try to attack it will be eaten alive.
I'm sorry, but to me this really just alarmist bullshit of people who do not understand these things. Let's not forget that a lot of FOSS software is backed by giant corporations who have a major stake in these licenses being valid. So even in the US it is almost inevitable that those who try to attack it will be eaten alive.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
It's also worth adding that the OGL has, at the moment, been dropped. No word on whether this means a different attempt is forthcoming, but as for right now things are up in the air.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
It doesn't have one. You're comparing chalk and cheese. They're entirely different situations, and you should probably cool your jets (and cancel your D&D Beyond sub).Twitchy2019 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:55 am The intention was to raise the awareness of this seemingly outside affair as to the effect it would have on the Doom community and other open-source initiatives.
Do you really think we can afford the legal muscle to fight a parking ticket, let alone some entirely-unlikely hypothetical attempt to destroy a legal agreement that like 90% of the tech industry relies on in some form or another? If the GPL falls, you're going to have much bigger problems than just some old juego.Twitchy2019 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:55 am This thread is to raise a healthy awareness and by doing so; bring forward a strong, organized coalition that can muster the resources necessary to win the fight against the possible destruction of Doom and open source.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Twitchy2019 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:55 am I want to be clear on my intentions for making this thread. The intention was to raise the awareness of this seemingly outside affair as to the effect it would have on the Doom community and other open-source initiatives. Too often communities that have little in common beyond a very vague concept were suddenly upheaved by some third party performing a successful attack on that very concept (i.e. Open Source). Many people have echoed this sentiment already in this thread, but the idea needs repeating: The foundations and defenses open-source communities have relied upon yesterday to safe-guard that ideal cannot be relied upon tomorrow. Politics have seemingly become more partisan and extreme more now than they have ever been. This has resulted in courts in several parts of the United States becoming shopping grounds for devious actors and their lawyers looking to break through previously held standards to enforce and entrench their agendas.
Many will say that what was said in the previous paragraph is common sense. But is it going to MOTIVATE you? Motivation is quite a different beast from simply saying, "yeah, x & x is happening, so what?" I am doing my part to prevent apathy towards this situation. You can too by simply talking and discussing. If you can bring more to the table, please do so. We can use all the help we can get. We being all users of anything "Open Source."
This thread is to raise a healthy awareness and by doing so; bring forward a strong, organized coalition that can muster the resources necessary to win the fight against the possible destruction of Doom and open source. This thread is not meant to emotionally manipulate others into brazen attacks or petty arguments. We have enough of that already. I like Doom. I also like the fact that many other products have been released as a result of its popularity. I feel if the Doom community is destroyed, the foundations of nostalgia and passion for it will dwindle, causing amazing content by not only Doom authors, but developers of other games like Dusk or Amid Evil, who cite Doom as an inspiration for their games; to disappear.
Please, by all means, debate and discuss, invite more people to become motivated towards assisting the D&D community as well as holding the fort right here. We must be more united and vigilant now more than ever.
I'm gonna be the dick that says that free software (as in libre) isn't the same as open source.
See https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-sou ... point.html & https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html.
TL;DR:
Spoiler:
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Then I'm gonna be the other dick here saying that the opinion of GNU is not really relevant because they are not a neutral entity in this matter. 

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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Fun fact, the first use of "Google" as a verb on television is acknowledged to have been on Buffy the Vampire Slayer:
Then Willow clarifies for Xander/the audience that Google is a search engine because, presumably, in 2002 it was assumed by the show runners that only geeks like Willow knew what Google was.

(Despite the video title, I think it was actually S07E04 "Help".)
And while I agree with the linked article that brand names should not be used in that way, especially when there are significant differences (such as the DuckDuckGo versus Google situation given as an example) "to google" has become accepted as a generic term for "to do an Internet search" regardless of which engine is being used, much like "Hoover" is synonymous with "vacuum cleaner" (at least in the UK), "Band Aid" is synonymous with "sticking plaster wound dressing" in several countries, "Biro" = "cheap ball-point pen", "bubble wrap" = however you describe that without calling it bubble wrap, Coke (to a certain extent), Fibreglass, Memory stick, Chapstick, Frisbee, Photoshop (also, much like Google, used as a verb), Yoyo, Tannoy and many more. All of which are technically incorrect (or at least were originally), though perfectly acceptable in many daily conversations, where using the correct generic term might even sound weird to many people.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Emphasis is mine. That gets really ambiguous, really fast.it was assumed by the show runners that only geeks like Willow knew what Google was.![]()
Fun fact: Lots of people don't fact check fun facts.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Back in 2002 I was still using Yahoo!

Let's not forget the one example where the origin has been forgotten by now:Enjay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:34 am And while I agree with the linked article that brand names should not be used in that way, especially when there are significant differences (such as the DuckDuckGo versus Google situation given as an example) "to google" has become accepted as a generic term for "to do an Internet search" regardless of which engine is being used, much like "Hoover" is synonymous with "vacuum cleaner" (at least in the UK), "Band Aid" is synonymous with "sticking plaster wound dressing" in several countries, "Biro" = "cheap ball-point pen", "bubble wrap" = however you describe that without calling it bubble wrap, Coke (to a certain extent), Fibreglass, Memory stick, Chapstick, Frisbee, Photoshop (also, much like Google, used as a verb), Yoyo, Tannoy and many more. All of which are technically incorrect (or at least were originally), though perfectly acceptable in many daily conversations, where using the correct generic term might even sound weird to many people.
"Dumpster" once was a brand of waste containers. I don't think many people remember it.
That's just how language works - and how some companies lost their trademarks.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
However, using brand names as verbs tends to give people the impression that the referenced thing is the best choice.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Although, personally, I think I have only heard the term via American sources. In the UK we still tend to talk about a "skip" for the bigger open ones and just "the big bins", or "the metal bins out back" and so on. The term Dumpster, like many Americanisms, is creeping in though. [Just like the constant use of "super" instead of "very" these days.]
Indeed, that's why I said "All of which are technically incorrect (or at least were originally)". I was trying to imply that many of these words are now the accepted and correct way of referring to the item/action concerned. In some cases, companies have even lost legal actions to try and protect their exclusivity to a word if the word has already become too public/generic.That's just how language works - and how some companies lost their trademarks.
Also true, assuming that the mental connection with the original product is still there. That probably would be the case with Google, and is also possibly behind the (failed) "Bing it" campaign of a few years back.
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
I think most technicians can also agree.Also true, assuming that the mental connection with the original product is still there. That probably would be the case with Google, and is also possibly behind the (failed) "Bing it" campaign of a few years back.
Similarly, the word "dumpster" is used to refer to a giant trash bin. However, since the company doesn't exist anymore, I see it as a common noun,
However, sometimes proper nouns get used to refer to a common noun. "Hand me a Kleenex".
I, myself, find this bad, as it would be hard to promote better alternatives or just call it by what it's called. That 1$ Chinese Apple "compatible" that'll burn-your-house charger shouldn't be called "an Apple charger".
Tangent (somewhat related) Context: Family IT guy (me) had to deal with some of this BS:
Spoiler:
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
In the UK, that sentence is much more likely to be "hand me a tissue". Though, again, creeping Americanism means that Kleenex would be understood and even used by some people. I suspect most would think it "sounds American" though. (We do have the brand Kleenex here, it just hasn't become the generic name in such a ubiquitous way as it seem to in the US.)
Oh, and FWiW
- Charles Arthur, 'Digital Wars' Pub. 3 Mar 2012Google was also becoming embedded in the public consciousness. The first use of 'google' as a verb on US TV seems to have been the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that aired on 15 October 2002 ('Have you googled her yet?' asks one character. The other, outraged, replies 'She's 17!' 'It's a search engine', responds the first, exasperated.)
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Re: Revocation of Doom GPL, A Possibility?
Where I live (Jordan), Kleenex is basically non existent.
The Kleenex equivalent here is "Fine". That's literally what it's called.
"Hand me a Fine".
(We speak in Arabic here [a language that won't make it into GZDoom], so I translated what we'd say almost literally. My Dad however, says "tissue")
. Oh, I forgot, back then Apple was on its way to badness (not as bad as the Apple Graf knows and hates today), as Steve Jobs was dead at the time. Proprietary stuff sucks. Not like it was ever libre software.
The first time i wrote this post, FF crashed when I typed. I laughed. AFAIK a web browser had a bug where if you held 5 keys it'd crash.
The Kleenex equivalent here is "Fine". That's literally what it's called.
"Hand me a Fine".
(We speak in Arabic here [a language that won't make it into GZDoom], so I translated what we'd say almost literally. My Dad however, says "tissue")
If it were Apple being referenced I bet they'd demand Macs in thereGoogle was also becoming embedded in the public consciousness. The first use of 'google' as a verb on US TV seems to have been the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that aired on 15 October 2002 ('Have you googled her yet?' asks one character. The other, outraged, replies 'She's 17!' 'It's a search engine', responds the first, exasperated.)
- Charles Arthur, 'Digital Wars' Pub. 3 Mar 2012

The first time i wrote this post, FF crashed when I typed. I laughed. AFAIK a web browser had a bug where if you held 5 keys it'd crash.
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