An open letter to the ZDoom community regarding drama

[Kinsie]

He's done this before. He'll be back in like a month.

All the useful links he killed, however, won't be, and if I had any say in the matter (I don't) he wouldn't be allowed back until that was remedied.

[Big C]

He's done this before. He'll be back in like a month.

All the useful links he killed, however, won't be, and if I had any say in the matter (I don't) he wouldn't be allowed back until that was remedied.

Part of me thinks you're being too harsh, and another part of me agrees with you on the basis of he's done a disservice to people that want to use and learn from his ZDoom works. I'm conflicted.

But if he's done this before then I REALLY have less respect for him. Just because this is a hobby doesn't mean it hurts to act a bit more professional!

[Project Shadowcat]

Doesn't that make you guys seem just a bit.... entitled?

[Trance]

Nash has every right to take his stuff down if he wants to. It's his own work, and he can do with it as he wishes.

That doesn't make him immune to criticism of his actions. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

I'm quite sure Nash is aware of how impressive and useful his work is to fellow modders, and unless he was having bandwidth issues with his filehost, taking all of it out of the community's reach was utterly unnecessary and, frankly, childish.

I'll say that there are a whole lot of people on this forum, some which have posted in this thread in fact, who need to do some growing up if the drama problems of this community are to subside. There are snowflakey artist types who can't take criticism, and there are tactless dicks who don't care enough about the impact of their words. Both these categories of people should either work to improve themselves or move on to another community. Until then, your forecast is drama with a chance of tears.

[kodi]

I don't think there's really anything that can be done other than tracking down every member and forcefeed them happy-pills. You can't force people to be nice to each other.
That said, I have a hard time understanding forum drama. I've never felt the need to insult, curse or be snarky against anyone here or on any other forum for that matter.

[wildweasel]

I guess some specific people just can't help themselves when it comes to saying what they really think.

[Kostov]

All of this was very interesting to read.

[Coraline]

This is nothing compared to what I've gone through, you all should have seen what happened when I was involved with a certain Blood community...talk about REAL INTERNET DRAMA. SUCH REAL, SO HURT.

TBH... people should just drop it, really, it doesn't warrant a discussion as it only serves to humiliate the people involved with it. Keep it in private messages. It's healthy to have discussion, but outing people specifically over what happened instead of keeping it an internal issue really does more to hurt than help. Lock this thread, banish it to the depths of Post Hell.

I've had a lot of experience moderating boards and I've dealt with this much differently in a way that nobody is affected like this, over similar issues...this is not the way to talk about it...

Not saying Wildweasal is doing a bad job (you are doing a great job!) but this could have had better damage control without hurting people more than they already felt they were.

[Big C]

I apologize for being angry at Nash earlier, I'm just baffled as to what he was thinking about people that were thankful for his work and why he did this anyway.

As for everyone else, I'm just wondering why people get snippy at each other over programming issues.

[Coraline]

Us programmers are a special breed. You have to keep in mind that we do this all for fun, whether working on 3DGE, G/ZDoom, or complicated ACS/DDF/etc scripts. When people start demanding and all that other stuff (when bugs start piling up, or people report the same issue over and over), sometimes we have a tenancy to get snappy. I really can't explain why we get like that.

Some of us are more patient than others. I *know* that I'm infinitely more patient than my predecessor was, as I am almost universally helpful and easy going. But I also deal with social situations and criticism very, very well. Going into 3DGE, for example, I knew I'd have it all pile on me just because of EDGE's rep, but knowing that and learning how to breathe, I've gotten through the worst and it only goes up hill from here. People respect you more for it, sure, but it doesn't exclude me from the occasional snappy comment. Graf definitely has more to deal with than I do, since 3DGE is much smaller in that regard, and he deals with things differently and people seeing that on the outside just will not understand.

Programming is hard, frustrating, and annoying (even for Godesses like Randi). For me, it helps that my users cheer me on and work with me, rather than demand all of these things and criticize my work - but I am indifferent if they do. Sometimes, being honest is the best way for me to get a grip with reality and decide, "Okay, this feature just isn't working out for everyone as a whole". If I have to say it bluntly as Graf does, then so be it. But I'm thankful Graf levels with me (for everyone else, I'm not too sure) because at least he respects me enough to say it as it is. And I think, in a way, he respects me back for knowing that. So go easy on him. =)

It comes with the job, and I just have to accept that sometimes, you have to suck that cheese-laden dick and take the money shot to get through it all.

[Shadelight]

Damn, this forum thread makes me wish I could speak in it.
I'm not entirely sure what this thread is trying to accomplish at all. This forum hasn't really needed stricter moderation at all and I still don't think it really does. Yeah, we may have given some people too many chances, but so what? There's always room for people to improve and prove to everyone that they CAN do better.

[Big C]

Damn, this forum thread makes me wish I could speak in it.
I'm not entirely sure what this forum thread is trying to accomplish at all. This forum hasn't really needed stricter moderation at all and I still don't think it really does. Yeah, we may have given some people too many chances, but so what? There's always room for people to improve and prove to everyone that they CAN do better.

I felt at the time I wrote the thread that the forum was getting plagued by unsightly infighting and possibly losing valued contributors. Now I'm not so sure, but I do at least maintain that it's ugly to watch and somewhat jarring/depressing when it happens between big-name users with a rep.

[Kostov]

I still like you guys. I'm glad to have a forum that I can relate to.

Who am I even saying this to? I'm just appreciative.

[taufan99]

I think the main problem here is emotions. If we can keep our emotions stable, maybe this forum can be better.

[Zanieon]

Logic over feeling is a great way to not get things too personal, however the majority tends to behave by emotions, not by logic, theres a ton of proofs around.

Also, about what Corynne said, all devs does it just as a passion, not as a real job, however i think the strange behavior they get when people asks for certain things is because the tons of stupid wishes in the Feature Suggestions.