EDGE 2.1.0 Discussion [RC-1 Released on 10.3.2018]

[chronoteeth]

Yes, you could even do like
"AAAA:A:0.5:NORMAL:SHOOT;
or even 0.25...however you'd want to do it. You could do this since forever, but it's more noticeable now because of the higher framerate.

I never understood why you guys always put EDGE down because of the lower framerate...until I started r_lerping through maps...damn.

Are you sure its more noticable? I just did a little test with 0.5 instead of 1 for weapon frames, and none of them animated with the new build.

[Coraline]

My sincerest apologies, Chrono. I forgot that the HUD is still not interpolated (which includes the weapons drawer)...my mistake :/

[chronoteeth]

its alright! it'll get there eventually!

[Gez]

I've also started up a Wiki for 3DGE that you can view here: http://3dfxdev.net/edgewiki

The wiki has so far taken structural influence from Zdoom's own Wiki

Yep, I've noticed.

I've integrated it (interwiki and link template) to the Doom Wiki.

[Coraline]

Like I mentioned on Doomworld, I can't view any source on Zdoom's wiki without it leading to a 502 Bad Gateway error. Here's just one of many examples. Just add &action=edit on anything and it'll result in a 502.

[Coraline]

Cool - these Wiki errors seem to be fixed and I'm able to do better editing on the 3DGEwiki now

So I've been doing a lot of thinking lately and I'm wondering how much of an advantage ACS/Polyobjects would have in a port like 3DGE over RTS...or if I should just continue enhancing the current RTS implementation. Does Hexen first need to be supported to use something like ACS, or even Polyobjs? If it does that would be huge because I don't know much about how Hexen works.

[randi]

ACS depends heavily on passing parameters to action specials ala Hexen. You don't need to support all of Hexen to use ACS, just its action special system.

Polyobjects can be done without any specific Hexen support (see Eternity).

[Coraline]

Thanks randi - I will definitely check out Eternity's implementation of polyobjects, I think that can be done.

I'm not sure I'll end up supporting ACS since taking RTS out will require a lot of effort, I might take some pages from ACS to implement in RTS directly, though. I'll have to check out a spec sheet or something for reference...I suppose we will wait and see.

[Graf Zahl]

Why do you have to take out RTS to support ACS? They can easily coexist next to each other - just like FraggleScript and ACS can.

[Coraline]

Cool, looking into it a little more I can see that Zdoom does indeed support both.

I'm curious - it looks like ACS needs to be pre-compiled. Is that a tool that needs to be executed out-of-engine, or internally? I suppose it's not a big deal as most modders that work with ACS do it anyway, just not used to doing it as opposed to RTS.

Second, I'm wondering who's implementation to go with. Eternity looks like it supports ACS but with ExtraData. Both G/ZDoom looks like they only use p_acs.cpp in the source code (but I'm looking at an old 2009 GZdoom I had laying around), not sure about how Vavoom does it either. Just wondering what would be easier to start with, obviously not the Vanilla Hexen ACS, but something that's already done.

Sorry for sounding like a n00b with this, I've just never looked into it. It does indeed seem to support the same things as RTS at heart, but with a lot more usability, and that could be very handy.

[Graf Zahl]

ACS uses an external compiler, but that step is performed by the editor.

I cannot say much about Eternity's implementation as I never looked at the code. But my guess is that it uses some Eternityisms, just like ZDoom's depends on some class related stuff.
Better steer clear of Vavoom, though, it's mostly a slightly stripped down version of ZDoom's code, you may miss something without even realizing.

I think the biggest load of work ahead for you will be support of Hexen's action special system which is quite a bit different from what the old EDGE devs have been doing. I really have no idea how these two will play together.

[Coraline]

That's the ticket. As I've said previously in the thread, it's interesting to see how at one point DOSDoom and EDGE were coded. Much credit goes to the last author of EDGE as he did attempt to modernize it a bit and get rid of some cryptic stuff, though it's funny to read through DOSDoom's RTS tutorials and see that not much as changed. You would be surprised to see how much you can do with it still, even though a lot of it is trickery back and forth between DDF and RTS (COAL too now). Some pretty impressive things can be done with it if one is patient enough.

Maybe perhaps I am better to just keep enhancing RTS. I suppose I can look at the kinds of things ACS can do and port them over to RTS. FraggleScript looks very similar to RTS, but they were both developed a long time ago so that could explain it. It's almost easier to import a new non-Doom library (like Splines) and work it in to what's existing rather than import Doom-child ACS and rework what's existing. It's not really laziness on my part, though, I just don't think the payoff would be worth it.

Such a shame that they took the path they did, but without it perhaps we wouldn't be where we are now. To its credit, DosDoom/EDGE was very innovative at the time (early on), and introduced a lot of things you simply couldn't do at the time. Now I feel like I'm playing catch up, but it's needed these updates for so long now.

[Gez]

I think an eventual support for Hexen as a long-term goal would be a pretty good payoff, and a natural next step once Heretic support is finished.

[Coraline]

Definitely. The only thing Heretic really needs at the moment is inventory support. I have the inventory set to different entries in an RTS menu activated by an Action button, it's very crude but it works all the same...obviously that's not going to stay at all.

Hexen support would be neat. That could be a nice long term goal. Honestly it seems that supporting Strife would be easier than supporting Hexen at the moment (aside from the inventory, 3DGE can do all menus in RTS and has HUBS, and the rest of Strife would be pretty simple). One thing I need to add to RTS is the ability to use an overlay and change text position when a menu is activated, and Strife would pretty much be gravy. Except converting everything to RTS...that would be draining.

[chronoteeth]

i know its a smidge of a bump, but hows hud interpolation going so far?