Another HD sprites project.. (OH NO! here we go again...)

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Failure after failure, why are we still trying it? Because I think this time it's gonna be different.

I have been studying what leads these HD sprites projects into damnation. The lack of organization and focus is the main reason.

This is the list of steps and rules so far. You are welcome to post suggestions.

Step 1: Polishing the already existing work
The last project started by Thief666 already had a lot of good content to start, but a lot of sprites requires to be polished. Lots of "garbage pixels" on most sprites, missing details, and some sprites haven't even been actually edited, just stretched and filtered. The first step is to finish this material. After I finish polishing the Zombieman, Shotgunguy, Imp, Demon, and Cacodemon, I will release the first public beta.

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Step 2: Primary sprite edits
The main rule of this step is (and this applies to step 1 too): never go back and change a concept before Step 3. If you don't like a concept, don't try to FORCE the person working on it to start everything from scratch. On Thief666's project there was somewhat like 10 pages about discussions related to the Demon's eyes colors. That is ridiculous. Feedback is always appreciated, but if its a big detail that will need to redraw all the sprites again, please wait for Step 3 (unless the person only drawed 1 sprite so far and is asking for feedback before continuing). On Step 3 you will know why it is so important to follow this rule. And remember that not anyone can be pleased by the same thing. When you don't enjoy something, there might be other people that like it, and it's not worth to stop the progress on the existing work just because you don't like it. Wait for it to get partially finished first!

Step 3: Secondary sprite edits
It's when we have all sprites already finished, but will make revisions to add more detail. Here is the part when you start complaining about the Cacodemon's horns, or the Imp's teeth, because now that all sprites are done, and it will be much easier to make edits. Let's say, if someone doesn't like the Arachnotron Eyes, it will just need to change the sprites on angles 1, 2-8, and 3-7, and angles 4-6 and 5 will not need to be touched. This will not just be easier, but will be much more motivational to start working on the small details knowing that you have much less stuff to do.


Current progress:
Here you can keep track of everything that have been done so far. Also you can know who is working on the sprites. Before offering help, check if somebody is already drawing the sprites that you want to draw.

Step 1 stuff:
Zombieman: All frames done except death frames.
Shotgunguy: Stand by. Awaiting Polishment.
Imp: Frames ABCDEFG done on angles 1, and 2-8.
Demon: Frames ABCD done in all rotations.
Baron of Hell: Stand by. Awaiting Polishment.
Lost Soul: Stand by. Awaiting Polishment.
Cacodemon: Frame A done on angles 1, 2-8, and 3-7


Step 2 stuff. Nobody is drawing these, so if you want to start, go ahead.
Chaingunguy: Not started.
Mancubus: Not started.
Revenant: Not started.
Pain Elemental: Not started.
Hell Knight: Not started.
Arch-Vile: Not started.
Arachnotron: Not started.
Cyberdemon: Not started.
Mastermind: Not started.

When an entire sprite sheet of a monster or weapon is finished, it is automatically sent to the next step. Stuff from step 1 goes directly to step 3.

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In-game Screenshots.

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So, anyone interested on contributing?

[Mav3rick]

ok.. will ask.. how in hell.. u get free time to work in so many projects?? and is good to see the sprites getting a sweet polish

[Flynn Taggart]

It's great to see this get a reboot . Although I am a little disappointed in the fact the we have to stick to the older sprites that Thief made because he couldn't release his newer WIP sprites before leaving. Anyways, best of luck.

[-Ghost-]

I think part of the problem too is that there's always a lot of nay-sayers with these projects. I always see the threads filled with angry Doom purists complaining about messing with the "spirit" of the sprites. I think this can eventually be done though, and then everyone can work off that pack in their own direction.

[Blox]

The problem is that to do such a project properly, you need a strong backbone of artists.
Which is something the Doom community is unfortunately rather lacking in. (And I don't count, because I suck at art.)

[Xtyfe]

Good luck, I hope are you are able to match the art style of the previous ones

[Kinsie]

I think part of the problem too is that there's always a lot of nay-sayers with these projects. I always see the threads filled with angry Doom purists complaining about messing with the "spirit" of the sprites. I think this can eventually be done though, and then everyone can work off that pack in their own direction.

I'd love a HD style if it actually looked any good. None of the existing projects have reached that yet.

The problem is that the more you try and crank up the detail and resolution of the existing assets, the more the human brain demands extra work that isn't at all feasable in any existing Doom engine - more animation frames, better lighting, more sprite angles... - to "fill in the blanks" for lack of a better term. It's kind of a self-defeating exercise. One possible way around this is 3D models, but these bring about their own, similar set of issues in the form of polycount, animation and texture quality...

There are hybrid methods, of course - SNK used 3D modelling and animation as a base for King of Fighters 12's sprites, but even then each character took a full-time, paid art team roughly 16 months to finish (granted, KOF characters have way more frames than Doom characters, but the point is that this sort of thing is a ton of work!)

I personally think the best way to handle a higher-quality sprites project that the Doom community could actually feasably finish would be something similar to the old Skulltag item sprites pack - no more than 2x the original resolution. That way, you can improve the clarity and detail of the sprites without unintentionally creating unrealistic expectations or giving yourself way too much work to do.

[-Ghost-]

True, the expectations go up as the quality level increases. I think it'd be best to start with items first, since they're less complex than the monsters.

[Blox]

The problem is that while the Skulltag item pack was somewhat done, even by one guy - monsters are an entirely different beast due to them not only having moving parts with a perspective you have to respect, but also rotations.

Which means that this is a ton of work, and because most of the monsters are pretty vague in their detailing, it takes some imagining. Which takes some artistic skill. Which is unfortunately rather far apart here.

I do agree on it being a good idea to just doing double resolutions of the monsters however, because it's much easier than doing quadruple resolution sprites.
Simply because you don't have to add all those details you might not be able to imagine properly.

[Doom64hunter]

Honestly, I think the imp's face looks terrible, absolutely nothing like an imp at all.

Just, take notice at how it stares at the ground instead of straight ahead, and how jarring the transition from face to head is.
Makes it seem like it ripped some Zombie's face off and slapped it onto its own as some sort of Halloween mask or something.

[XutaWoo]

I could dig a high-resolution project. Honestly, I'd think it'd look better than a high-definition one, since the art style wouldn't change at all. They'd just be smoother up-close.

[Matt]

Seconding what Kinsie said.

Though, really...I'd like to see a 1/4 resolution spriteset myself!

[twinkieman93]

Seconding what Kinsie said.

Though, really...I'd like to see a 1/4 resolution spriteset myself!

8 bit sprites to go with the 8 Bit CTF mapset?

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

The problem is that the more you try and crank up the detail and resolution of the existing assets, the more the human brain demands extra work that isn't at all feasable in any existing Doom engine - more animation frames, better lighting, more sprite angles... - to "fill in the blanks" for lack of a better term. It's kind of a self-defeating exercise. One possible way around this is 3D models, but these bring about their own, similar set of issues in the form of polycount, animation and texture quality...

There are hybrid methods, of course - SNK used 3D modelling and animation as a base for King of Fighters 12's sprites, but even then each character took a full-time, paid art team roughly 16 months to finish (granted, KOF characters have way more frames than Doom characters, but the point is that this sort of thing is a ton of work!)

I personally think the best way to handle a higher-quality sprites project that the Doom community could actually feasably finish would be something similar to the old Skulltag item sprites pack - no more than 2x the original resolution. That way, you can improve the clarity and detail of the sprites without unintentionally creating unrealistic expectations or giving yourself way too much work to do.

First, the objective of this project (at least until I am leading it) is not to make "uber detailed oh my god so perfect high definition" sprites. On what I have been doing so far, the results are satisfactory (at least for me). The monsters seems more scary, more realistic, and have better contrast, and I think this is good enough.
Second, learning how to make models, and make actually GOOD models would take much longer than drawing these sprites. The Doom community have been trying for the last decade to make good models, and nobody could ever make a monster with more polygons than the robot on Beastie Boys' videoclip.
Also, I am making them 8x because I think it's actually easier to add detail on bigger sprites.

ok.. will ask.. how in hell.. u get free time to work in so many projects??

I am currently unemployed, at least until the next month. I have been modding for 10 hours a day lately
Before starting this, I even attempted to start an Aliens Trilogy TC, and got the pulse rifle, the warrior, and half of the first level done in one day.

I could dig a high-resolution project. Honestly, I'd think it'd look better than a high-definition one, since the art style wouldn't change at all. They'd just be smoother up-close.

There are filters in GZdoom that can do this. Anyway, as I mentioned above, the main goal of this project is not to make everything look ultra high quality. Just a improvement over the original sprites.




Meanwhile... I found some cool boots. I did a set of these boots that will fit all sprites for the marine and zombies and I will not have to worry anymore about polishing their boots separately. just need to copy and paste and it will be easier. The zombie's boots are not drenched in blood because I couldn't find a way to add the blood and keep the same distribution on all angles, so, for now, the zombies will not have bloody boots. Also, this is the final form of the zombieman. All of his sprites are done. Moving on to the shotgunguy.

[Xtyfe]

Those boots so do not fit