EDGE 2.1.0 Discussion [RC-1 Released on 10.3.2018]

[CeeJay]

A quick question: Is transparency broken in the recent build?

Been trying it out with various mods and there is zero transparency.

[Coraline]

Some things to check:

What is the value of r_oldblend if you type it in the console (should be 1)? And also check r_transfix.

Transparency in images? What format are the images in?

If r_oldblend is not at 1, try setting that and restarting EDGE. If it is, set it to 0 and restart. Let me know the results, also screenshots are welcome as well.

[CeeJay]

Apears to be everything, no transparency in sight. I'll try the console command.

EDIT: r_oldblend WAS set to 0. How come it isn't set to 1 by default? And how about adding it to video options menu. Or should it be screen options.

[RUNSABER]

Completely off topic, but does anyone know where to get royalty - free chess piece MD2/MD3 models, and how would I go about implementing them into 3DGE? I found an old reference wad from when Andrew was the developer but as far as I know, that was for previous versions dating back to 1.23 -1.36F. Please, would like help for a Hexen-style map I'm experimenting with, and models would be the most efficient assets to use in a scripted environment. Thank you!

[Coraline]

Are you asking about a 3D model tutorial? I've actually been working on one, and also has documentation on GL3-only features such as specular and normal mapping.

As for those, find them in any format - I've also been cooking up a 3D model conversion tutorial. I'm sure it will also apply to other ports, at least logically speaking, mostly for GZDoom.

Just a quick note: releasing EDGE 2.1.0 RC2 shortly which has a host of bug fixes, and changes DDF on-disk semantics slightly (all DDF folders will now reside in a folder called /base/).


For those of you that found COAL complicated, look up any QuakeC tutorial - the generalized idea is the same. Also, I'm really trying to put work into the existing COAL docs on the EdgeWiki. What exactly if you don't mind, is overly complicated? In the same vein, any suggestions to make it easier to read/comprehend? Because we are in light talks with complimenting the existing DDF/RTS into COAL.

Feedback welcome

[CeeJay]

THING commands ARMOUR_CLASS, ARMOUR_PROTECTION, etc appear to be broken. I am trying to make an armour item that protects against "missiles" (projectiles) while ignoring everything else. Something that should be 100% doable with those commands at your disposal but no matter what combination of commands I use in whatever order, it just will not work. I do remeber it working fine a while back, so I'm not sure if something happened between versions. Tested and not working with v2.1.0pre-242-gc9e8a01 and v2.1.0-RC1-93-g12c3a0307

[Coraline]

Hey everyone, getting back into coding again after a bit of a hiatus (issues in personal life like dating, job change, etc).

THING commands ARMOUR_CLASS, ARMOUR_PROTECTION, etc appear to be broken. I am trying to make an armour item that protects against "missiles" (projectiles) while ignoring everything else. Something that should be 100% doable with those commands at your disposal but no matter what combination of commands I use in whatever order, it just will not work. I do remeber it working fine a while back, so I'm not sure if something happened between versions. Tested and not working with v2.1.0pre-242-gc9e8a01 and v2.1.0-RC1-93-g12c3a0307

Sorry about that, some stuff changed which broke others so I reverted back to the previous innards which fixes that stuff. I’ll upload that devbuild tonight for you.

Also, need to know - it’s becoming more difficult to retain different rendering paths in EDGE with regards to OpenGL, and debugging the stuff that breaks in between different paths is also very difficult to diagnose and fix.

Thinking about going to at least OpenGL 3 and being done with that stuff - however, are there any users that are still using cards that only work with GL 1.1 or GL 2? Because if not I’d like to just move forward and make GL 3.0 a requirement, but I don’t want to do it if this will make existing users unable to use the engine. Maybe I should take a poll. So if everyone can get back to me on that I’d appreciate it!

The existing ports like DC and soon-to-be-released VitaEDGE will stay on their respective paths for reasons (1.2 for DC and 2.0 for Vita).

[Gez]

There's survey code in GZDoom which you could borrow; it'd be more exhaustive than forum replies.

It was put in there for pretty much the same reason.

[drfrag]

Or just look at the results of the survey.

[Rachael]

GZDoom's audience would be fairly different from EDGE's and the results of the survey would likely have significant enough differences that Coraline should run an EDGE survey.

[Coraline]

GZDoom's audience would be fairly different from EDGE's and the results of the survey would likely have significant enough differences that Coraline should run an EDGE survey.

Just to be clear, we are talking about a forum survey right?

[Graf Zahl]

No, this sounds like an actual engine-side survey, like GZDoom has done last year. Which is actually the only way to get useful data.

Thinking about going to at least OpenGL 3 and being done with that stuff - however, are there any users that are still using cards that only work with GL 1.1 or GL 2? Because if not I’d like to just move forward and make GL 3.0 a requirement, but I don’t want to do it if this will make existing users unable to use the engine. Maybe I should take a poll. So if everyone can get back to me on that I’d appreciate it!

GL 2 still has a minor user share (GZDoom showed a bit less than 3% last year, but GL 1.x may be considered irrelevant these days, unless you really want to service the last 5 holdouts on such toaster systems.
We never explicitly tested this but some number crunching I did to evaluate the feasiblity of dropping Direct3D backend support for the software renderer yielded numbers between 0.2 and 0.3% running such old hardware. The survey showed zero legacy graphics cards from AMD or NVidia (these would have been flagged), so all these users that may still have OpenGL 1.x are on lowest end Intel chipsets that are totally worthless for running anything hardware accelerated. I don't think you'd lose anybody dropping support for this.

[Coraline]

No, this sounds like an actual engine-side survey, like GZDoom has done last year. Which is actually the only way to get useful data.

Thinking about going to at least OpenGL 3 and being done with that stuff - however, are there any users that are still using cards that only work with GL 1.1 or GL 2? Because if not I’d like to just move forward and make GL 3.0 a requirement, but I don’t want to do it if this will make existing users unable to use the engine. Maybe I should take a poll. So if everyone can get back to me on that I’d appreciate it!

GL 2 still has a minor user share (GZDoom showed a bit less than 3% last year, but GL 1.x may be considered irrelevant these days, unless you really want to service the last 5 holdouts on such toaster systems.
We never explicitly tested this but some number crunching I did to evaluate the feasiblity of dropping Direct3D backend support for the software renderer yielded numbers between 0.2 and 0.3% running such old hardware. The survey showed zero legacy graphics cards from AMD or NVidia (these would have been flagged), so all these users that may still have OpenGL 1.x are on lowest end Intel chipsets that are totally worthless for running anything hardware accelerated. I don't think you'd lose anybody dropping support for this.

I'll have to look into that - having an engine-side survey sounds pretty useful. Especially if it means I can drop all of the crazy mixed-mode OpenGL EDGE currently uses.

Still experiencing framerates that dip into the high 40's, mid 50's on my AMD RX580. Curiously, any modern Intel HD IGP (even on my Surface Pro 2015 with the Iris 640 and Latitude E7450 with the HD 5500) runs EDGE at a perfect 60FPS! This has to be an ATi driver issue - I thought it might be a monitor refresh rate case, but it isn't so. My Arcade desktop (which sports a lower-end Nvidia GTX 680) runs it well above 60FPS. I have to find out if there's some sort of GL implementation that either isn't supported or has weird hacks that bogs shit down with. Tried with and without the Andrenaline drivers and even tweaked all of the settings for EDGE on the driver level. Some weird shit. . .

If anyone has a newer ATI card I humbly beg you to run EDGE, even if you don't have any intention of keeping the port and delete it 2 seconds after you are finished. When the game starts, type in 'idinfo' for the FPS counter. I’ll even take reports from GZDoom users if anyone has trouble hitting 60FPS.

At this point - I can't tell if this has anything to do with SDL2, our interpolation/vsync code, or ATI's drivers. Attempting to run it through CodeXL with my current card is a nightmare and doesn't do much good. No point in running it on my Intel IGP machines nor my nVidia as those function just fine.
@Graf, any advice?

THING commands ARMOUR_CLASS, ARMOUR_PROTECTION, etc appear to be broken. I am trying to make an armour item that protects against "missiles" (projectiles) while ignoring everything else. Something that should be 100% doable with those commands at your disposal but no matter what combination of commands I use in whatever order, it just will not work. I do remeber it working fine a while back, so I'm not sure if something happened between versions. Tested and not working with v2.1.0pre-242-gc9e8a01 and v2.1.0-RC1-93-g12c3a0307

I dropped a new build into the DRDTeam for the 64-bit version of EDGE (will drop x86 when I get the chance). This should fix your issues - if it doesn't, please let me know. Remember your x64 processor needs to support AVX or EDGE will crash (anyone know how to detect AVX? Should I use SDL_Bool and weave it into i_x86 from ZDoom)?

[Graf Zahl]

@Graf, any advice?

Sorry, but Sourceforge and their messed up Javascripted download interface is giving me trouble.
I think you really should consider putting the downloads on Github instead, it's far more user friendly and doesn't try to shove ads down the downloader's throat.

[Coraline]

It’s uploaded to the DRDTeam.