[All versions] Heretic inconsistensies.

[NiGHTMARE]

Makes me wonder if the people experiencing the "jerky lava movement" are using Heretic v1.3, or an earlier version...

[Rachael]

Makes me wonder if the people experiencing the "jerky lava movement" are using Heretic v1.3, or an earlier version...

It happened in both 1.0 and 1.3, for me.

[Demon!]

It happened in both 1.0 and 1.3, for me.

Same here.

As I said, this may be a side effect of some sort - neither a bug, nor a feature. I can't really tell.

I brought it up because it does affect gameplay in some way. It makes lava a bit more dangerous.

[Gez]

If it's a feature it would be documented somewhere in the code. Something like "// makes movement chunkier in damaging floors" somewhere in some function. If it's not, you can assume it's an unwanted effect of a bug.

[Enjay]

FWiW, I don't remember my version number and can't check ATM, but I have the version that installs from the CD with the 3 original episodes plus the two extra ones. I assume that's the most recent version (1.3?).

[printz]

It happens both with the keys and the mouse, at any difficulty. It randomly blocks any movement input for a very small fraction of second, at periodic intervals. Can be tested with QUICKEN. Also, lava splashes appear continually, even when god mode is on. Happens with both wimpy and hefty damage types.

SotSR is 1.3.

[Gez]

The continual splashing is easier to confirm, happens every time the sector attempts to deal damage.

[Rachael]

FWiW, I don't remember my version number and can't check ATM, but I have the version that installs from the CD with the 3 original episodes plus the two extra ones. I assume that's the most recent version (1.3?).

The two extra episodes, as I can recall, were never released for any version prior to 1.3 - however, they are compatible with 1.2's executable.

[HotWax]

Just tested with DOSBox and Heretic v1.3. No jerkiness or interruption of movement of any kind. Tested mouse and keyboard, multiple skill settings. I get the continuous smoke effect, but that's it.

[edit] More testing with DOSBox, playing with the cycles command.

With cycles Auto (default) the game runs perfectly smoothly and I get no stuttering in the lava.
With cycles 20000, I detect a slight hint of hitching only when there are lots of objects on the screen. So if I'm in a corner in the lava turning, the screen moves smoothly, but as soon as I can see any distance (turning away from the corner), there are a few chunks in the turn.
Down to cycles 17000, I get hitching every time I turn but moving forward/back is still relatively smooth. This seems consistent with what some of you reported.
At cycles 12000, movement becomes erratic in lava with lots of stuttering when moving and turning.

I think this is more related to the power of the user's computer and their DOSBox settings, and therefore is definitely unintended behavior. I suspect that the spawning of the lava and smoke have a lot to with the stuttering, but I don't believe anything should be added to ZDoom because this was never meant to be a feature.

[Demon!]

I think this is more related to the power of the user's computer and their DOSBox settings

No, it's NOT. It happened for me on many different computers with many different configurations - in pure DOS, Windows 95/98, even in Win XP (you can play the game normally if you turn off all sounds).

Keep in mind that this effect only slows down the player's movement and nothing else - don't confuse it with jerking that affects the whole game (like when you set DOSBox to fewer cycles or when there are many objects on the screen).

[printz]

Could it be driver dependent?

Though it got both my mouse and my keyboard.

[Rachael]

Could it be driver dependent?

Though it got both my mouse and my keyboard.

No, drivers have absolutely nothing to do with it.

I think this is more related to the power of the user's computer and their DOSBox settings, and therefore is definitely unintended behavior. I suspect that the spawning of the lava and smoke have a lot to with the stuttering, but I don't believe anything should be added to ZDoom because this was never meant to be a feature.

I disagree. I just tested it - I think it IS intended behavior, because computers nowdays are about a hundred times - if not more - faster than they ever were in the days when Heretic was first released. I think that the "unintended" effect is that the computer is just so fast that Heretic handles too many tween tics before the actual tics and the randomizer that dictates whether to turn it on or off is just acting too fast to be noticed.

17000 cycles is very high above the power that 386's and 486's had back in the day.

I think the best way to eliminate the smoke idea is to "merge in" some blank lumps for the smoke to the Heretic wad and run vanilla Heretic with it. Heretic still uses the same engine as Doom did, so all that hacky stuff would be required to replace the sprites.

[TheDarkArchon]

17000 cycles is very high above the power that 386's and 486's had back in the day.

No, it isn't. Dosbox at that speed isn't much faster than a launch 386 and nowhere near a 486

[signofzeta]

No such feature was ever in any version of Doom

Heretic, not Doom. It's not exactly a feature, it's the way the game handles damage by lava. It slows you down and makes you movement somewhat jerky. It's like you are walking through thick mud (which is pretty realistic for lava, isn't it?). You can call it a "side effect" if you wish

But it does exist, I remember seeing it many years ago, and I still see it today (with or without DOSBox).

By the way, (sorry to change the subject so quickly), does the Maulotaur have an obituary? So far, I only get "player died".

Ooh oooh oooooh.

If the maulotaur does his sideswipe flame thing on you, and you die, it should say this "Player got burned by the maulotaur"
If the maulotaur does the flame line on the ground thing, and you die, it should say this "Player couldn't dance on the maulotaur's flames"
If the maulotaur charges at you and you die, it should say this "Player got gorred by the Maulotaur" or "Player did not take the red cape away fast enough"
If the maulotaur melees you, and you die, it should say this "Player got Mauled by the Maulotaur's Maul."

[HotWax]

I disagree. I just tested it - I think it IS intended behavior, because computers nowdays are about a hundred times - if not more - faster than they ever were in the days when Heretic was first released. I think that the "unintended" effect is that the computer is just so fast that Heretic handles too many tween tics before the actual tics and the randomizer that dictates whether to turn it on or off is just acting too fast to be noticed.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. While there were certainly DOS games that made the mistake of relying on CPU cycles for timing, Doom was not one of them. It instead used a consistent 35 tics-per-second system and based all of its game timing on that. Raven would not take the engine and break it by implementing a feature that for no good reason hits the system clock. Your theory that ZDoom is "processing too many tween tics" is also incorrect. ZDoom operates on the same 35 tics as the original Doom engine, only rendering frames between to make the rendering smoother. If you like, you can disable this behavior and force ZDoom not to interpolate (cl_capfps 1), and I guarantee you still won't see this effect. If ZDoom broke the 35 tics per second rule, it wouldn't be at all compatible with the original games, and we know that's not true!

You are either experiencing an unintended side-effect of the multiple lava splash spawning, or simply seeing some jerkiness due to a slower computer. I can guarantee you, if there's no function in the code to generate this effect, it is not intentional, no matter how many times you keep saying it is.