Hideous Destructor 4.10.0b

[Matt]

I would wager a guess that that voodoo doll glitch might not be fixable... so here's the NEW UPDATE! without a fix for it (at least not intentionally).

Changes:

• Bugfix: HERP beep logic was reversed, meaning it would stop beeping intermittently rather than beep intermittently.
• Bugfix: Healer imp's see state was missing a "loop" call, meaning it went into the missile state every two steps.
• Bugfix: Missing A_Stop on black armour spawn state.
• Bugfix: Low mantling wasn't working at all.
• Bugfix: The ammo box was spawning an actor it should have been giving to itself for the desired effect. Said effect has been augmented in the process.
• Backpacks that aren't picked up now drop stuff instead of automatically giving them to your inventory. It's not the same stuff, but hopefully it's random enough not to matter.
• No more jumping while weapon busy.
• Backpack guns are now loaded.
• Bombardier also starts with SMG.
• Nerfed yokai attack.
• Added loaded ammo to encumbrance. Note: I'm not going to bother counting chambered small arms rounds, and loaded ammo is less encumbering than ammo that's flopping and jangling around on your body.
• Loadedness also affects weapon handling. The only guns that skip this check are pistol, SSG, bullpup rifles (as to the rifle portion) and Boss, where the placement of the ammo makes the difference negligible.
• Gibbed marines now must be put back together by healers before being raised.

edit: wtf why are there so many fucking voodoo dolls on this map what are they even for

[mumblemumble]

Sweet update! only complaint on the patch-notes is I kinda hoped jumping would instead stop whatever frame of reloading its in, taking priority over anything else, but I get that might be a pain to code. But I'm pretty sure with a cyber demon bearing down on someone, they would drop EVERYTHING naturally to jump away, and reloading a shotgun or rocket launcher wouldn't effect this. Actually, would be cool if dodging mid reload acted this way, but had a chance to fumble the gun...But, hey, I like emergent gameplay ideas like this, where shit randomly happens, effecting other shit. I know we could hit the drop key then jump, which I do sometimes, but still. Might also be cool if this worked to drop the zm66 when overheated.

One big problem : I think with the handling of some weapons, it should be adjusted for either it has the OLD handling at full, or it has great handling at empty, slightly worse at full. Currently the chaingun at full can barely be maneuvered around, to the point I don't dare pick it up. I also think it shouldn't be that much, considering the weight would still be at the base of the gun towards the handle, I imagine, yet it handles like you have a cinder block tied to the end. Alternatively, give the bigger guns better recoil resistance when heavier : A chain-gun might kick like a mule, but if its as heavy as one, the kick should be less in the big scheme of things, right? But I would still vote to lower the level of handling difficulty with a full chaingun, cause that is just a LITTLE much, It feels less like something that was designed for a ligh infantry suppression weapon, and more like something along the lines of a full on mounted gun that the player happens to be carrying, where firing it at full weight is just not comfortable at all. Make it handle like an m249, NOT an m1919 30 cal when full, please. This said, this dynamic with the chaingun is REALLY cool, but a LITTLE extreme

Weight of weapons seems to have been RAISED overall due to this, at least for some guns. Compare with the old weights, chaingun is now incredibly, stupidly heavy when full. I think it would be better to start with old values, and reduce them by how much ammo is spent, OR, as stated before, have a middle grount where the old value is somewhere in the middle. Because right now, an empty gun weighs as much as a FULL gun before, so really its kinda a weapon wide weight nerf, rather than a possible buff.

Batteries in the chaingun, magazines themselves (the metal sleaves which hold the ammo) do not count towards weight. I can understand the magazines not counting outside the bullets, but taking the battery out of the chaingun should make it lighter. And the chaingun, fully loaded being just shy of 300 blocks.. Don't know, seems a bit much...

batteries in chainsaw, plasma, and bfg should make more than 3 blocks difference. A battery does weight more than a shotgun shell, after all, by a substantial margine, 20 blocks to 3 at normal weight, so increasing the weight difference to say, 6, would be reasonable. Especially since weight doesn't reduce when energy is used

Shotgun side saddle inventory does not account for weight. This means you have a full 12 blocks, just for free dedicated to the shells

Bronto bolts weigh nothing in the ultralite

Heat rounds weigh nothing in the RL

First pistol weighs nothing by itself (unloaded)

Pistol on last round is silent if the fire button is held, because the slide click cuts off the firing noise of the final round.

Giving the bombardier 1 extra mag might make sense... The medic has a zm66, and 2 mags, which is 100 shots...smg holds 30, so 2 is 60. Just a thought.

Considering 9mm in gun usage is roughly half the weight of in pocket, 4.26 is roughly 3/5 of in pocket weight, libby is 1/3 rd o pocket weight rocqettes are 3/8 pocket weight shotgun shells are 1/3rd pocket weight and batteries are 3/20 of pocket weight (what)... I think theres a bit of inconsistancy. I would think, within a reasonable margin of error, things should be at 1/2 of weight in gun or so, rounding up, just so empty guns carried for later are a bit more viable of an option. Also, Batteries should certainly weigh more in gun, since the energy itself is weightless. Unloading a plasma guns battery would only be for reloading, or weight, so lets not skimp on that. Also, since 7.62 is considerably bigger than 9mm, they should lose 1 block every 2 shots, while 9mm loses 1 block every 3

Yokai nerf, I'm guessing stopping its ninja pirate behavior actually kinda works like a buff, since now shooting it might not make it flinch and stop zapping you. Also, not sure if you addressed this, but yokais who are a super long ways a way absolutely SUCK, I HATE them, and I want them to die in a fire Seriously though, a range limit on that beam would be nice Its kinda depressing to have a yokai halfway across a map zapping me, and I hopelessly potshot before croaking after a minute of exposure. Not fun in the slightest.

Just a thought, but after research, it seems hand grenades are much heavier per unit than 40 mm grenades. 40 mm grenades are slightly more weight than a magazine in a beretta http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infa ... _ammo.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_M9 While frag grenades weigh a little under a pound (14 ozs) Granted, this is a future based mod, using caseless ammo, plastic casings, ect, so weight could be reduced, and the casing of the 40mm isn't a factor, and grenades could use a lighter composite, BUT, I figured I would put this out there, even though I'm sure you already know vae. Also, the heat rounds should weigh more than normal rockets.

Crushed corpses block the use function (how does one use a puddle of blood?) so do gibbed bodies

Due to the higher weight of the chaingun, I think the recoil per round should be less, relatively speaking (it sucks it going all over when moving, and doesn't make sense the bullets pushing such a large machine around that much) Or, more importantly, when moving / hit when firing, it shouldn't spaz out in different directions, such a heavy gun should keep momentum whichever directly its going instead of randomly going other directions, and the gun randomly falling during this feels odd, since the firing should keep the gun upright a little.

zombies, and monsters in general don't seem to have pain states throwing off aim for a few moments after like players do.

Racking sound of the boss rifle lever being pulled could use a slightly higher pitch, since its a smaller, finer metal piece, and less muffled by the pump

Empty chainsaws are too common on insurgent, and boss rifles are WAY too rare (seriously, slayers and boss rifles should be the most common, hunting rifles and double barrel shotguns are incredibly common.)

gibbed chaingunners resurrect instantly

===

Besides that, really like the update. Kinda wished guns were slightly lighter when not loaded, BUT, this is just wishful thinking on my part. Its still nice that an empty rocket launcher is ever so slightly less of a burden than before, now that the empty chambers mean less weight.

As for voodoo dolls, they are (i think) from the electrical arcs around the map, which kill you if you enter. This is supported by the fact that they do jack diddly if you spawn in on HD, and trigger them.

Oh and, seeing the weight of a gun dropping as i fire it....just makes me giddy Especially the chaingun weight plummeting as I dump the mags all over a baron.

[Matt]

I'm going more by perceived bulk than weight, so a round thing like a grenade will take up more space than a mag that can lie flat in a pocket.

Various oversights will be addressed next update.

[mumblemumble]

I'm going more by perceived bulk than weight, so a round thing like a grenade will take up more space than a mag that can lie flat in a pocket

Except you aren't, a 9mm magazine takes 12 blocks, grenades / rocquettes take up 8.
Granted, I dont terribly mind, rockets add up quick no matter what, so maybe staying this way isn't a bad thing.

yokai views through objects are pretty op, considering none of my attacks go through trees, or anything else.

Any time an ammo crate is blown open, it explodes with batteries in it. Really cool effect, doing that, but shouldn't make it always batteries.

Cells are a bit too plentiful, I would cut the rate for spawns on shell 4 packs, to very , very slim, perhaps a third of the current rate.

A pump shotgun would be a great drop for possible shellboxes, and would prevent situations where theres plenty of shells, but no shotguns.

Theres a possibility that chaingunner spawns will spawn nothing, and this can break levels where a script calls for a chaingunner to die.

Lowering off a ledge mantling maneuver is broken.

[Matt]

Lowering off a ledge mantling maneuver is broken.

It was never an intended feature, and I suspect what's actually happening was the same mechanic as the airjump Djames pointed out.

...huh, the weights really are the opposite of what I remember them being. I'll take a look at tweaking the numbers.

[mumblemumble]

Lowering off a ledge mantling maneuver is broken.

It was never an intended feature, and I suspect what's actually happening was the same mechanic as the airjump Djames pointed out.

Very disappointing to hear... I don't know if you can make it work legitimately, but that feature was amazing, lowering from ledges really helped with fall damage, and just FELT cool doing. Couldn't you simply enable mantling when not on the ground?

By the way, even though bloody steel isn't fully beatable with HD, the very first segment is VERY interesting with HD. Lots of zombie men from all kinds of angles, and hidden by grass, but also enough cover that you aren''t screwed. Very good practice for being aware on flanks and such

grenades dont knock around other grenades anymore

I've been completely full of shit about the med station being useless : apparently you can drop it, use it once, and pick it all back up without any resources being expended. I think perhaps it should get the herp treatment, containing meds, or at least the battery put in it, and using a small percentage with each heal. Perhaps, also holding the 2 stims, 1 medkit, and turning them into "general treatments" and getting 2, MAYBE 3 treatments for that load of medicine, and say, 15 treatments per battery. Something along those lines.TL;DR : medical bot = infinite healing! Also, when was the medical bot weight lowered? it used to weigh like, almost 100 blocks, now its actually a good idea to pack.

Speaking of herp, any way to fluxuated the herp weight by the magazine as well? With the partial mag which is normally left inside? Or alternatively, remove the partial mag on pickup, and enable partial mag like the vulcanette, but a brief AI derp when it hits the end of the mag, pausing for half a second as the computer figures it out.

[Djames516]

I would wager a guess that that voodoo doll glitch might not be fixable... so here's the NEW UPDATE! without a fix for it (at least not intentionally).

Changes:

• Bugfix: HERP beep logic was reversed, meaning it would stop beeping intermittently rather than beep intermittently.
• Bugfix: Low mantling wasn't working at all.
• Backpacks that aren't picked up now drop stuff instead of automatically giving them to your inventory. It's not the same stuff, but hopefully it's random enough not to matter.
• Backpack guns are now loaded.
• Bombardier also starts with SMG.
• Nerfed yokai attack.

luv u

[Djames516]

Lowering off a ledge mantling maneuver is broken.

It was never an intended feature, and I suspect what's actually happening was the same mechanic as the airjump Djames pointed out.

Very disappointing to hear... I don't know if you can make it work legitimately, but that feature was amazing, lowering from ledges really helped with fall damage, and just FELT cool doing. Couldn't you simply enable mantling when not on the ground?

By the way, even though bloody steel isn't fully beatable with HD, the very first segment is VERY interesting with HD. Lots of zombie men from all kinds of angles, and hidden by grass, but also enough cover that you aren''t screwed. Very good practice for being aware on flanks and such

grenades dont knock around other grenades anymore

So basically I ruined Hideous Destructor
I pointed out that bug solely for attention, and now I'm reaping the rewards
that'll learn me

[mumblemumble]

So basically I ruined Hideous Destructor
I pointed out that bug solely for attention, and now I'm reaping the rewards
that'll learn me

I'm not sure if that is meant as passive aggressiveness, on your part, or what, but I wasn't disappointed, or really even caring about your decision to point out a bug, pointing out bugs is a VERY good thing. I'm merely disappointed in the results, which I'm sure vae might address eventually.

I might be misinterpreting what you mean by that, but please don't be passive aggressive, particularly when I said, and did nothing to you to begin with.

However vae, how viable is it for mantling to be checked for, and attempted any time space (jump function) is depressed, even when mid air, or after executing a leap? I think if you did this, this would enable lowering off ledges, leaping / catching, and climbing up ledges, and in general widen the ability of movement. And that would be great, because then dark 7 map 7 wouldn't be impossible.

It seems very dead marine corpses (left in maps via decoration) get revived as whole zombiemen, but then vanish, while also making a thunder buster detonation sound... I....I'm confused here, vae. Very confused.

[Matt]

The only reason why that would happen would be that something is preventing the final corpse from spawning, even despite the SXF_NOCHECKPOSITION.

Which map and what other mods were you running?

[mumblemumble]

Marswar, crash site map (map 5?) And just a sound pack. I tested it several times with the dead marine to the left path down, resurrected with both a spark, and a healer imp, both time it messed up.

Gun handling while berserked does not account for weight handling different when full. This mostly applies to the chaingun, which handles like you are drunk, but I imagine it appplies to everything else. Really, it shouldn't. If I can punch a PERSON IN HALF, a few extra lbs on what im firing should do a whole lot of nothing. I suggest simply turning that off when berserked. (Though I do like this effect, I almost wish I could purposely half load an smg, just so I could have perfect reaction time)

[Matt]

I think I might have addressed it now with some better frame manipulation that doesn't abuse TNT1A0. At least I haven't seen it happen since.

Zerk already cuts in half any turn restriction imposed by weapon weight, but does nothing to momentum. I think I'll keep it that way, though - you can still turn much faster but you lose control doing so, which seems fitting since you're hyped up and fucked up on all sorts of weird hormones and stimulants.

[mumblemumble]

I suppose this makes sense but...hmn, perhaps a bit less so for lighter guns? I mean, for the chaingun / rocket it makes sense, if you weight 200 lbs, and you swing around a 30 lb piece of hardware, theres only so fast you can swing it no matter how much strength before you start getting thrown around with it, but I think this could be expressed better with berserk than it randomly twitching out like a spaz as it currently does, maybe instead having a bit or pain as a consequence, pushing the player from the momentum (you could stop the momentum from spinning it to the left, but it would still stumble you to the left from the sheer weight continuing to swing VIA your body)

I mean, ants can lift 10 x their body weight, but of course struggle with stuff that weigh much larger, and with a humans posture, I imagine something weighing a significant amount being swung about, while still being controllable would dramatically throw off footing.

Its kinda like the criticism for most animes I have : If a 100 lb dude swings a 200lb sword over himself, wouldn't that throw him into the sky? Same principle applies, except replace sky, with 2 feet to the left.... But, humn, I suppose this principle would also go with turning, especially while moving where feet are not FIRMLY planted. But, another point, this isn't scaling by weight, the BFG weighs the same (if you account for the extra weight added by accident) and yet the BFG seems to handle MUCH better. Maybe this will change once the extra weight is fixed, but for now its odd. ACTUALLY, before I keep assuming...the chaingun isn't INTENTIONALLY 300 blocks or so when full, is it? I keep thinking this is a massive mistake, and I hope it is, because now essentially EVERY gun is heavier.... PLEASE tell me I am correct, Or...Well...Just please tell me I'm correct. I really don't think I can accept the idea that guns across the board are heavier with ammo in them than before... especially since I suggested this so empty guns would be more pheasable to carry.

Oh also, the bfg suicide bug is still alive. Any chance the death beams it shoots can shoot at / frag the player?? If so, I should also inform you the BFG beam occasionally fires on certain parts of levels for no reason

did you add crits to the boss rifle? using it, its very confusing, as dead on shots to the back sometimes dont kill zombimen, while grazing hits to mage imps will kill them in 1 shot. If not, that needs to be added, crits to the slow, long range rifle are huge.

Herp / derp reaction time is a LITTLE too fast imo, even for future stuff, computers are generally slower than humans on target recognition timing. Its much easier for a human to identify than a bot, and its very often that herp / derps fire as soon as you enter visible range. I would at LEAST put in say, a 15 tic delay betwen visual connection and firing, because then there would be little reason it wouldn't fire at anything green and you shaped (like evil marines). Nevermind, I guess that herps have suppressing fire ability now?... or they remember targets...

Yokai spawn rates being lowered seems to be a lie, which correlates with high battery rates / shotgun shells spawning batteries. On a bad RNG check, I got 3 yokai from 3 shotgun shell stacks.... thankfully a grenade sent them back to hell, but jeez. Also, this makes batteries way too common, I would dare say a battery deserves a SHELLBOX replacement, for the amount of resources it gives. 20 shells can drop 4 hell knights. A battery can drop a dozen with a TB, and an untold amount with a BFG.

Having the vulcantette turned on, and tapping very quickly will play the rev up sound (which is now redundant)

is there any way you can distinguish undead marines, perhaps a subtle palet swap, like slightly sickly skin color? Would be nice...or perhaps a blood red visor.

i feel as if the drooping down with the chaingun when moving isn't warranted, and throws off aim when firing in a very strange way. Care to explain this? I could understand based on directional movement (walk backwards, more likely to level out / go down, left and right making it sway left or right, walking forward making recoil a bit more intense) but right now it just feels weird.

I really would redo the relationship between jumping and reloading, enabling it perhaps, but causing it to stop the reload state, drop ammo / clips in question. Otherwise, reloading a shotgun while having an imp throw something at us is the very awkward situation of "I would like to dodge, but I MUST finish reloading first"

[Matt]

Now that the cells are used for just about anything and everything frequently encountered large stockpiles of them do make sense.

And I will always ignore that jump suggestion because you can always just bind the drop weapon key to something accessible.

[mumblemumble]

Eh, cells are...rather common now, and the demand for them is lower. Keep in mind, health / armor bonuses, shells, chainguns, backpacks, cell drops, arachnotrons, and I believe other stuff drops them, in addition to partial cells being usable for certain things too. I would at least cut in half the shell stack spawn rate, cause its a bit much, I never feel the squeeze for needing cells, unless I'm playing as a specialist or hideous destructor class. herps, med stations, goggles, even the vulcanette never consume batteries enough that its an issue most of the time. I liked the balance where batteries were uncommon, but attainable in episode 1 like levels, and had to be used carefully because of this. It also aggravates the yokai situation since shell drops can spawn them, so now the yokai swarm problem is actually worse, along with plenty of batteries, so the balance feels sorta wonky.

As for jumping, I see your point...but its kinda like the whole idea of what made you implement sideways dodging: it was theoretically possible before, using careful movement, sprinting, ect, but it was wonky, uncomfortable, and took plenty of effort to do something relatively simple. Same for this, yes hitting x (my drop key) then dodging as i pick the gun back up is possible, but its a needlessly complicated mess of button mashing to achieve the simple idea of "stop what your doing and move". I get you have a TON of suggestions on your plate, and I get coding the frames for this would be a pain, but it would be nice. Do what you will however, this isn't needed right now, and I DO appreciate the immense of amount of work you put into HD : Even as skeptical as I was it is now my favorite doom mod, but I also feel I have a duty to point out perceived flaws : Not because you don't do a good job (you do an awesome job) But because I want to see this mod get better in any way possible. Thanks for your hard work on this mod you put in this every week, I appreciate it.

I've been noticing something in HD causes large, occasional lag spikes, but I don't know what. https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/level ... ts/s-u/tls The last sanctuary Is a good example, I start the map at say 35 fps, and it quickly starts tanking into under 1 fps. I'm not sure why, and I doubt its the wandering AI by itself. Obviously this is crippling for play-ability, but I do not know the source. This is even more odd, because I DISTINCTLY remember playing this map with HD a year ago, and the game didn't lag out ANYWHERE NEAR this bad. Sorry i cannot provide any more information... but something is perhaps having a laggy script error, or something, because this source of lag seems to pile on, and its not at the start of the level, but rather accumulates.