That loot box legislation... let's talk about it

[Rachael]

This seems exactly like my post, except completely forgetting how much this legislation gets most of its brownie points from "new media are evil and must be restricted!!!" and "it's for the safety of the kids!!!" - since, remember, almost everyone around it is just some rich old white dude who thinks it's the poor's fault for being poor while doing everything in their power to take any agency out of a poor person's life.

So, no, it's neither something nor significant, and this is exactly what I mean when by it being a scapegoat to let the people in charge look like they're actually accomplishing anything.

No, it really is not exactly like your post - in fact, minus one point it is otherwise completely disagreeing with you. I am making a clear point that harm in the entertainment industry DOES have an actual effect in people's lives, and that this legislation IS important - no matter how much "brownie points" you might like to chalk it up as being. This is more than just some scapegoat. The only thing that I agreed with you on is the concession that there are more important issues to be tackling - but this legislation is occurring in what might as well be some backwater state that is only famous for being a very beautiful vacation getaway and being the only U.S. state consisting purely of small islands, so that much really doesn't matter.

[Arctangent]

No, it really is not exactly like your post - in fact, minus one point it is otherwise completely disagreeing with you. I am making a clear point that harm in the entertainment industry DOES have an actual effect in people's lives

So ... you're not disagreeing with me at all, but you're disagreeing with some ghost you mistook for me?

[Chris]

this is exactly what I mean when by it being a scapegoat to let the people in charge look like they're actually accomplishing anything.

Helping people avoid coming to harm is accomplishing something. Just because it's not The Ultimate Root Cause Of All Problems doesn't mean it's not worth tackling. Even in medicine, you do sometimes treat the symptoms if those symptoms in and of themselves are harmful enough.

What I was asking was that if skin DLC made by the artists to add on to a product is considered predatory considering they made it after the game was finished.

Generally speaking, no (although it can be if that DLC has to be bought with virtual currency, but that's a completely separate topic).

Does this actually dent or solve the problem in a significant way?

Depends. The only reason something hasn't happened already is because the ESRB has decided to not call gamble boxes what they are and follow their own guidelines on the matter, but if the law steps in and plainly defines these things as gambling, they won't have a choice. Gambling is federally regulated, so presuming bills like this see wide adoption, publishers and retailers will have the follow the law regardless of what the ESRB wants to say, and I doubt many retailers will want to step into that minefield. As a result, you would see a sharp reduction in the number of games utilizing these kinds of practices.

This isn't quite the same thing as when dealing with M rated games that a parent will buy for their kid because whatever little Timmy can handle a bit of gore and cussing. Once you bring up the topic of gambling with real money, you may as well be talking about real-life sex or real-life drinking, for as seriously as its taken.

[Rachael]

So ... you're not disagreeing with me at all, but you're disagreeing with some ghost you mistook for me?

Either you are missing what is completely obvious and right there in front of you, or you are attempting to gaslight me. Nevertheless, it is clear that the interpretation you are having here is not the original message that I gave. I am not going to argue over interpretations.

[Graf Zahl]

I haven't given the gaming industry a single cent of my money since they started introducing DRM.
And from that point on it has become progressively worse with each new idea. I'm simply not interested anymore because playing the game clearly has become a secondary objective.
It's for the same reason that last year I quit game development as a profession for good. The entire business has become far too toxic, especially in the mobile environment. It's really not fun inventing and developing schemes that are designed to separate people from their hard earned money.

On "corporations are sociopathic by nature":
That part is definitely true. And to a large extent we have to thank the stock market for that, which is not just sociopathic but downright insane. Working in smaller companies that aren't publicly traded and do not really compete with the big ones is normally an entirely different story because their field of business tends to be more contained and thus less prone to being outmaneuvered by some big sharks.

[Arctangent]

Either you are missing what is completely obvious and right there in front of you, or you are attempting to gaslight me. Nevertheless, it is clear that the interpretation you are having here is not the original message that I gave. I am not going to argue over interpretations.

Is the obvious thing that you consider legislating stuff to be entertainment? Because that's the only thing I can figure you can mix together calling this legislation pointless and calling entertainment pointless.

[Graf Zahl]

I think even after 4 pages you are completely missing the point of this discussion. There's enough posts spilling it out in clear English why this is something magnitudes more dangerous than the previous antics of the gaming industry.

America may not react, but rest assured that if they continue on such a path, it won't be without some counteraction in Europe.

[insightguy]

It's for the same reason that last year I quit game development as a profession for good. The entire business has become far too toxic, especially in the mobile environment. It's really not fun inventing and developing schemes that are designed to separate people from their hard earned money.

Shame. Your coding is a testament to the community since gzdoom would basically not exist without you.

At least go indie or something, shame to waste talent like yours.

On "corporations are sociopathic by nature":
That part is definitely true. And to a large extent we have to thank the stock market for that, which is not just sociopathic but downright insane. Working in smaller companies that aren't publicly traded and do not really compete with the big ones is normally an entirely different story because their field of business tends to be more contained and thus less prone to being outmaneuvered by some big sharks.

We might need another crash so all the money sharks go away for a while so the people actually interested in game development might actually make headway.

Then again it's the nature of life that somone is always accountable to somone, so stakeholders that know nothing of gaming get what they want: money.

If only a majority of gamers could buy stock from ea and other AAA companies and basically threaten to bankrupt them if they screw up. But that's just fantasy.

I think even after 4 pages you are completely missing the point of this discussion. There's enough posts spilling it out in clear English why this is something magnitudes more dangerous than the previous antics of the gaming industry.

Honestly I don't mind the concept of government regulation, it's just that government part of it is not exactly.... encouraging. I kinda hoped that the reaction on the internet and sales would be enough to tell them that the bullshit is working less and less, but no. Fuck the customers am I rite?

Unless they can pull it off without some senator sneaking in some sort of line that somehow screws with something even more, them I'm fine, in theory.

Then again, I don't live in the USA. So that part does not bother me as much.

[Arctangent]

I think even after 4 pages you are completely missing the point of this discussion. There's enough posts spilling it out in clear English why this is something magnitudes more dangerous than the previous antics of the gaming industry.

America may not react, but rest assured that if they continue on such a path, it won't be without some counteraction in Europe.

uh

Is the obvious thing that you consider legislating stuff to be entertainment? Because that's the only thing I can figure you can mix together calling this legislation pointless and calling entertainment pointless.

graf this started less than a page ago and i don't think europe will really care all that much about figuring out where the hell rache pulled the "enterainment isn't important!!!" thing out of

does the fact that i disagreed with people here mean that i can just type pure gibberish posts because everyone's just going to read completely something different out of it regardless of the actual contents

[Graf Zahl]

It's for the same reason that last year I quit game development as a profession for good. The entire business has become far too toxic, especially in the mobile environment. It's really not fun inventing and developing schemes that are designed to separate people from their hard earned money.

Shame. Your coding is a testament to the community since gzdoom would basically not exist without you.

At least go indie or something, shame to waste talent like yours.

I'd rather code stuff I get paid for in a reliable fashion. Sorry to disappoint you, but games do not cut it anymore. You either sell your soul to the wolves or go down.

[Gez]

Arc, I'm sorry, but please, please, just stop.

[Arctangent]

Arc, I'm sorry, but please, please, just stop.

You could be referring to many, many things here, so being vague with it is pretty dang meaningless.

[Graf Zahl]

I think that's what Gez said:

Just. Please. Stop. Posting. In. This. Thread!

[Rachael]

graf this started less than a page ago and i don't think europe will really care all that much about figuring out where the hell rache pulled the "enterainment isn't important!!!" thing out of

does the fact that i disagreed with people here mean that i can just type pure gibberish posts because everyone's just going to read completely something different out of it regardless of the actual contents

Yeah, this shows that it is as I suspected - either you are extremely dense, or you are intentionally missing the point.

Arctangent - seeing as how you are the only one in this thread causing any sort of issue right now, I am going to make myself very clear: While it is okay for you to have a different opinion than everyone else, the way you are handling it is not. If something is unclear, you may ask for clarification, but don't assume something whatever you think sounds the stupidest or the worst and then put words in someone's mouth based on that assumption. Do not deliberately misconstrue another person's opinion. This thread was being handled very maturely without you - and it can easily continue to do so - without you. I don't want to have to make a decision and have to do something that ensures that will continue to happen.

If you think we're misunderstanding you, then make an effort to interpret and process our misunderstanding, and clarify yourself with why you think we aren't getting the message. Don't simply repeat yourself.

If at any point of time we're pissing you off or upsetting you: Leave. Don't act out - because trust me, what results from that isn't worth it.

[Arctangent]

If you think we're misunderstanding you, then make an effort to interpret and process our misunderstanding, and clarify yourself with why you think we aren't getting the message.

Haven't I done this several times at this point.