The Official ZDF New Doom Thread

[leileilol]

When they gave Rage fans an editor, nothing significant was made from it, especially considering the unique megatexture creation overhead which would be overwhelming for budding hobbyists, and there's no blaming "Denuvo" for that, because it isn't there (which is just chicken-little bullshit that doesn't make sense as that would imply modding would need the .exe file modified, and the only real reason to cry about it is if you're a spoiled entitled software pirate, as it's one of the more relatively tamest non-legit-customer-screwing DRM schemes of late (it's not fucking SecuROM/Starforce))

[Kinsie]

http://www.pcgamer.com/snapmap-doesnt-m ... od-support

Even them agrees that SnapMap is a very limited thing, well, to be extremely honest, this was a dumb thing from id Software themselves, putting Denuvo on the game and saying that this editor is all the players need.

Denuvo does not prevent access to the game data.

[The Zombie Killer]

It's been irritating me a lot how people have been bitching about how Denuvo means the game will supposedly never get mods, however these people must be the kind of people who have never modded a game in the first place, because Denuvo protects the executable, not data :v

[Nash]

80k tris per character huh? Here I thought 10k tris for a character was too much. I clearly need to get out of 2005.

[Blox]

Well a lot of the time, the executable is where the critical game data is stored due to laziness.

[Zanieon]

I will not say that Denuvo is the principal reason for the lack of modding support, but still this helps demotivate people, the main reason for sure is the lack of at least the lil' "Mods" menu that the previous id Software games had like Q3, Doom 3 and Q4 (can't rmb if Rage had).

[Kinsie]

I will not say that Denuvo is the principal reason for the lack of modding support

You just did, a couple of posts ago. That's how this whole derail started.

the main reason for sure is the lack of at least the lil' "Mods" menu that the previous id Software games had like Q3, Doom 3 and Q4 (can't rmb if Rage had).

It didn't beyond a generic "play with whatever custom shit's been thrown in the appropriate directory" option in the Steam launcher. Not that it matters - Id Studio was utterly worthless unless you had a server farm and a team of triple-A game developers at your beckoning.

There's also apparently a "MODS" mode in the Doom 4 binary alongside the multiplayer and snapmap modes, so it's not impossible for it to poke its head out in the future.

[Zanieon]

You just did, a couple of posts ago. That's how this whole derail started.

Not really, re-reading i posted that with a bit of rage of it not having modding support but being more calm about the subject now, i mean i doubt they left id Tech 6 with the same mod recognition of the previous engines which you just throw the paks in the game base folder and it loads automatically due to Denuvo.

But as i said before too, unless id Software themselves makes the game internally read mods, maybe even via that fs_game commandline, it would be nice.

[Kinsie]

i mean i doubt they left id Tech 6 with the same mod recognition of the previous engines which you just throw the paks in the game base folder and it loads automatically due to Denuvo.

Would you care to explain how a copy-protection wrapper would affect basic engine functionality like loading resource archives?

Like, maybe there's a licensing agreement "OH HEY YEAH IF YOU LICENSE OUR PROTECTION SOLUTION YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE -GAME COMMANDLINE BECAUSE HAIL SATAN" message I'm missing that you could point out to me. Or maybe you have no idea what you're talking about. Either/or.

[Zanieon]

Ok for the answer, maybe it is there then, the only thing it can't be done is modify the root files, but add only.

Damn Kinsie, thanks for making me think with logic more than leave my emotions drive my opinions, there's people who wouldn't say this but i actually do regret about what i thought of Denuvo because i forgot one simple thing, the id Techs have that thing of reading the content of paks with same name and replace stuff under same name with the lastest thing that was read, root files don't need to be changed.

[The Zombie Killer]

Bottom line: Denuvo is not the reason the game currently lacks mod support. Denuvo only prevents modifications to the executable.
Unfortunately, idTech 5 and beyond seem to have abandoned the whole "external game code" system that idTech 4 and its ancestors used (gamex86.dll), in favor of compiling the game code directly into the executable.
Unless this functionality is reinstated, I don't see any serious modding aside from mapping and maybe some very small behavioral changes happening.

[Zanieon]

Maybe no graphical mods can be supported due to that too? Shader modification i mean, because there's always the guys who says "graphic not so nice", mainly the consolist sheeps which believes in the CGI trailers Blur Studio does for some games.

[InsanityBringer]

Unfortunately, idTech 5 and beyond seem to have abandoned the whole "external game code" system that idTech 4 and its ancestors used (gamex86.dll), in favor of compiling the game code directly into the executable.
Unless this functionality is reinstated, I don't see any serious modding aside from mapping and maybe some very small behavioral changes happening.

I remember reading that with regards to doom 3 bfg edition (which also abandons having external game libraries) that this was done since consoles don't support dynamic linking in this manner very well so it was removed (apparently it also eases their own dev some), and I am guessing that it was done for doom 4 for similar reasons.

Still kind of a shame, for sure, but I do kind of wonder how many Doom 4 mods would have risen given the aformentioned issues with trying to use idtech5 and 6's toolkits at a more casual level. Who knows, maybe given the apparent success of Doom 4 so far and the name behind it some people would try to work past them.

[Kinsie]

The shift from external, more moddable code to native is an increasingly industry-wide one. See: Unreal Engine 4 dropping UnrealScript in favor of raw C++.

[The Zombie Killer]

On top of that, the currently "recommended" way to add modding support to an UE4 game is pretty shit-tastic