One Of My More Reasonable Ideas - From ST Forums

Post by **Nash** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:58 pm

What an ass hat. And look at him, condemning Graf and all at the ST forums.

Boo hoo go run to your ST forums and tell them all how much ZDoom and its developers are "dumb" and have all those two-faced fan boys back you up!

Carnevil · Post by **Carnevil** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:43 pm

randy wrote:Bio Hazard wins. A lot of the skins created after Doom Legacy added the feature replaced resources that had absolutely nothing to do with the skins, such as intermission screens and music. It was stupid and annoying, so I decided to prevent it and simplify the code at the same time.

Yeah, but that just plain sounds like someone made a bad wad that people shouldn't play. IOW, it's a wad issue that shouldn't be dealt with by code. I think it's usually annoying when DM wads and such replace things like the status bar, the regular Doom font, etc., but does that mean I should forcibly ban it with code? I don't think so. That sounds like an inappropriate solution, and I think this skin "solution" is inappropriate as well.

Plus, like I said in an earlier post, this makes it so that non-annoying, properly done projects can't include custom skins (or it makes it so they have to be included with another PWAD, which is just plain annoying), and even if you can get around it, the skin that potentially uses sounds and such from the project would then be able to used independently, thus screwing up the skin.

It just seems to be a poor solution that causes more trouble that it's worth. Oh well. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to change anyone's mind, no matter how many good arguments I make.

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:08 pm

StrikerMan780 wrote:
Cutmanmike wrote:Wrong again, you can't embed skins in to wads.
No, YOU are wrong! I HAVE THE DAMN WAD TO PROVE IT! Ask Some of the People in The Skulltag Community! HOW DO YOU THINK SKULLTAG HAS SKINS EMBEDDED INTO IT'S WAD? You Know, such as massmouth, crash, base 2, phobos, and such. Right in SKULLTAG.WAD, and That Wad Has The Levels Included in it!

Because skulltag.wad is a base wad that skulltag.exe runs and is designed to run. as such all material in that wad WILL BE LOADED automatically.

Advice: I hate to be rude, but grow a flexing brain before you start screaming at everyone.

Post by **Bio Hazard** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:22 pm

I'm sure someone could write a quick program to strip out all the lumps not used by the skins from a wad and then ZDoom could do the logical thing and load all the lumps. Both problems solved. Modders could include skins and when you find a skin wad with other funky stuff in it, just drop it on this EXE and it will be "purified".

Heck, I could write such a program in a jiffy if I had a couple of offending WADs and the SKINS lump format specs.

Cutmanmike · Post by **Cutmanmike** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:58 pm

Carnevil wrote:Plus, like I said in an earlier post, this makes it so that non-annoying, properly done projects can't include custom skins (or it makes it so they have to be included with another PWAD, which is just plain annoying), and even if you can get around it, the skin that potentially uses sounds and such from the project would then be able to used independently, thus screwing up the skin.

The answer to this problem is custom classes. They're alot more flexable too. Anyway it's in ST isn't it? What's the point of trying to get it in this too?

Hobbs · Post by **Hobbs** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:04 pm

Carnevil wrote:Sadly, I don't think I'm going to change anyone's mind, no matter how many good arguments I make.

It would probably go so much farther if the arguments you made were good.

Project Shadowcat · Post by **Project Shadowcat** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:33 pm

DoomerX wrote:
Carnevil wrote:Sadly, I don't think I'm going to change anyone's mind, no matter how many good arguments I make.
It would probably go so much farther if the arguments you made were good.

I thought they were.

Is it just me, or did this topic just heat up a bit?

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:41 pm

prdarkfox wrote:
DoomerX wrote:
Carnevil wrote:Sadly, I don't think I'm going to change anyone's mind, no matter how many good arguments I make.
It would probably go so much farther if the arguments you made were good.
I thought they were.

Is it just me, or did this topic just heat up a bit?

Indeed, it has.

And thus why I back off a bit. I don't need flamebait.

Carnevil · Post by **Carnevil** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:54 pm

People here seem to be awfully rude. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

Cutmanmike · Post by **Cutmanmike** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Frankly, I'm disappointed you won't release the ST netcode

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:57 pm

Carnevil wrote:Yeah, but that just plain sounds like someone made a bad wad that people shouldn't play. IOW, it's a wad issue that shouldn't be dealt with by code. I think it's usually annoying when DM wads and such replace things like the status bar, the regular Doom font, etc., but does that mean I should forcibly ban it with code? I don't think so. That sounds like an inappropriate solution, and I think this skin "solution" is inappropriate as well.

Plus, like I said in an earlier post, this makes it so that non-annoying, properly done projects can't include custom skins (or it makes it so they have to be included with another PWAD, which is just plain annoying), and even if you can get around it, the skin that potentially uses sounds and such from the project would then be able to used independently, thus screwing up the skin.

It just seems to be a poor solution that causes more trouble that it's worth. Oh well. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to change anyone's mind, no matter how many good arguments I make.

I think one reason why this makes sense is that it's very easy for a user to go on a skin downloading spree and throw stuff in their skins folder, and then run into extra crap loading into ZDoom and having no idea why it's there. The average person probably won't even realize the problem is sitting in their skins folder buried under dozens/hundreds of WADs, and even if they do, they've got that many WADs to search through to find the problem.

I could see the usefulness of a CVAR that would control whether the loading of non-skin-related resources is allowed in skin PWADs, but I doubt Randy will bother coding it.

HotWax · Post by **HotWax** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:58 pm

Cutmanmike wrote:Frankly, I'm disappointed you won't release the ST netcode

Yeah no kidding. Poor form... VERY poor form.

Cutmanmike · Post by **Cutmanmike** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:00 pm

Form?

rivecoder · Post by **rivecoder** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:45 pm

Attempting to switch topics. Poor form indeed.

I'm not a big fan on skins, personally, but it seems to me that a limit like this in a ZDoom feature ought to be fixed by ZDoom. Also, what's annoying with wads that change elements of itself when you switch skins? It seems that it would mainly be used in a joke wad. If it's annoying, who's seriously going to use it?

Post by **Bio Hazard** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:40 pm

Yuck, I wouldn't want ST's netcode in ZDoom anyway. All that lag. Blech. The current system is very fast and simple, which is far more important to me.

If Carn were to someday swallow his pride and release the netcode (or at least the bots like he said he would), I'd hope it would be optional. (except the bots, zcajun seriously needs to take a hike!)