[WIP] "Hell on Earth"

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

Also, the question I want to ask is: should I try to make some dehacked work-around in order to implement more sprite props into the wad (and keep it compatible with Zdaemon), or should I just go and use decorate and keep it within the realms of Zdoom/GZDoom/Skulltag?

People still use ZDaemon?

I'd say go with Decorate.

[Blue Shadow]

But I'll probably either surround the wall with decorative buildings, or figure something else out.

That will do.

Also, Have you looked into my early suggestions? I don't mean to push or force any thing upon you here, just want to know your thoughts on them.

[Minigunner]

This looks pretty promising. I would like these things in the mod as well:
1) Blending levels ALA Duke3D. You'd have to come up with a bizarre travel story in your mind (or give logic a hearty "fuck you") if you go between levels by falling through the sky and ending up in a closed room with unprovoked demons outside.
2) Weak helper humans and more numerous/smarter monsters. Yeah, I know the point is that you're a One Man Army, but still, there are humans out there that are still fighting or hiding. To counter the strength your helpers provide, there would either have to be more potential demon fodder or the demons would have to pick out the NPC's before you, unless you provoke them.
3) Wandering rifle/shotgun zombies. I did say they were potential fodder, but if you are sneaky enough, they become something worse: target practice. Also, they are seeking humans to eat, so don't expect them to stand still .
4) Less Cyberdemons/Spider Masterminds. Doom 2 turned them into monster of the week, so if there are only 1 or 2 in the whole mappack, and if they get steroid treatment (perhaps with LOS-style cutscenes thrown in), they will be re-promoted to boss status, and then some.
5) Non-linear and partially-destructible. Well, most wooden doors, windows, and cracked walls should be destructible, and perhaps 3Dfloors (if you wanna go that far) to give the buildings multiple stories.
6) Maintaining a Vanilla Doom level of (apparent) simplicity. Doesn't mean refraining from using ZDoom features .

[Mike12]

But I'll probably either surround the wall with decorative buildings, or figure something else out.

That will do.

Also, Have you looked into my early suggestions? I don't mean to push or force any thing upon you here, just want to know your thoughts on them.

Yeah I have, that's about what I've been planning, so no worries.

This looks pretty promising. I would like these things in the mod as well:
1) Blending levels ALA Duke3D. You'd have to come up with a bizarre travel story in your mind (or give logic a hearty "cake you") if you go between levels by falling through the sky and ending up in a closed room with unprovoked demons outside.
2) Weak helper humans and more numerous/smarter monsters. Yeah, I know the point is that you're a One Man Army, but still, there are humans out there that are still fighting or hiding. To counter the strength your helpers provide, there would either have to be more potential demon fodder or the demons would have to pick out the NPC's before you, unless you provoke them.
3) Wandering rifle/shotgun zombies. I did say they were potential fodder, but if you are sneaky enough, they become something worse: target practice. Also, they are seeking humans to eat, so don't expect them to stand still .
4) Less Cyberdemons/Spider Masterminds. Doom 2 turned them into monster of the week, so if there are only 1 or 2 in the whole mappack, and if they get steroid treatment (perhaps with LOS-style cutscenes thrown in), they will be re-promoted to boss status, and then some.
5) Non-linear and partially-destructible. Well, most wooden doors, windows, and cracked walls should be destructible, and perhaps 3Dfloors (if you wanna go that far) to give the buildings multiple stories.
6) Maintaining a Vanilla Doom level of (apparent) simplicity. Doesn't mean refraining from using ZDoom features .

Yeah, you have some good ideas here, some of which go along with my original intentions (I don't want it to be super-simple Vanilla, but I'm not going for KDIZD detail here. I want it to feel kind of like it could have actually been a Doom sequel at one time, so I'm kinda going for Duke 3D/Build-era level design/detail levels, but only time will tell)

I may actually have a Cyberdemon boss level or something of the sort, and actually build the scenery based on the box art . And perhaps something similar for the Spider Mastermind.

As far as destructible scenery and environments go, I'll just have to see what I can do.

As for the humans, I'm on the fence about whether or not to try and incorporate human helpers, especially since I don't have too much decorate knowledge. And as for the zombies, they'll be present, not sure if I can make them wander on their own though.

[Minigunner]

A_Wander along with A_Look in the See state will make the zombies walk around, for starters

[Conmon]

A_Wander along with A_Look in the See state will make the zombies walk around, for starters

And put a +FRIENDLY tag on the actors you want to use as allies. Simple as that.

[Hellstorm Archon]

There's really a few ideas I'd like to give:

1. For the final boss (if there is one), it could be a modern version of Baphomet, but once you defeat it, that it unleashes some eldritch horror, something that is truly unspeakable (it doesn't have to be reminiscent of Giygas or H.P. Lovecraft, it can be your own original creation). So basically here, Baphomet could act like a Devil's Machine for an eldritch abomination.
2. Try incorporating some horror into the action, somewhat like F.E.A.R. There can be a situation where you're up against a horde of demons, and in the next, some ungodly evil could make itself known to you not by cheap closet scares like Doom 3, but rather like terrifying images (they don't have to be NSFW like Ghoul's Forest 3) and mind screws.
3. Occasionally, you could have an injured human here or there, and they could actually be traps set up for you by the demons.
4. It could take place in one big city or in a series of smaller cities, I would recommend the latter because you could have more varied enviroments and more unique demons to fight.

[Mike12]

There's really a few ideas I'd like to give:

1. For the final boss (if there is one), it could be a modern version of Baphomet, but once you defeat it, that it unleashes some eldritch horror, something that is truly unspeakable (it doesn't have to be reminiscent of Giygas or H.P. Lovecraft, it can be your own original creation). So basically here, Baphomet could act like a Devil's Machine for an eldritch abomination.
2. Try incorporating some horror into the action, somewhat like F.E.A.R. There can be a situation where you're up against a horde of demons, and in the next, some ungodly evil could make itself known to you not by cheap closet scares like Doom 3, but rather like terrifying images (they don't have to be NSFW like Ghoul's Forest 3) and mind screws.
3. Occasionally, you could have an injured human here or there, and they could actually be traps set up for you by the demons.
4. It could take place in one big city or in a series of smaller cities, I would recommend the latter because you could have more varied enviroments and more unique demons to fight.

1. This wad is essentially supposed to be an abridged but more detailed and horror-ish version of the story for Hell on Earth, so the ending boss (if I decide to have one) will likely be some variation on the Icon of sin. However, I could use one of those ideas for an earlier boss battle or mini-boss or something of the like.

2. Yeah, I'm trying to mix action and atmospheric horror. I plan to have parts where there's some calm before the storm, so that the player can take in some of the imagery.

3. Still on the fence about having human presence in the wad, but it's a possibility for sure.

4. The levels are probably going to be a couple city levels, a suburb level, industrial zone level, and possibly a couple redecorated Doom 2 maps to link them together. I might throw some other environments in as I work on this, but this is what I currently have planned at the moment.

[Blue Shadow]

1. This wad is essentially supposed to be an abridged but more detailed and horror-ish version of the story for Hell on Earth, so the ending boss (if I decide to have one) will likely be some variation on the Icon of sin. However, I could use one of those ideas for an earlier boss battle or mini-boss or something of the like.

Icon of Sin as a (final)boss is a turn off for me. It just ruins the whole experience of a wad. Whenever I play a wad with it as a boss, I just cheat my way through because I hate that battle. It's just unfair, IMO.

[Mike12]

1. This wad is essentially supposed to be an abridged but more detailed and horror-ish version of the story for Hell on Earth, so the ending boss (if I decide to have one) will likely be some variation on the Icon of sin. However, I could use one of those ideas for an earlier boss battle or mini-boss or something of the like.

Icon of Sin as a (final)boss is a turn off for me. It just ruins the whole experience of a wad. Whenever I play a wad with it as a boss, I just cheat my way through because I hate that battle. It's just unfair, IMO.

Well, if I do go through with the Icon of sin, the map will be totally different, more places to take cover and defend yourself and the like.

Anyways, I added another layer of trash to the streets, and updated the screenshots accordingly.

[Pedro vc]

Suspiria and Fulci? Italian horror movies ftw
I like all the papers on the floor, cool effect

[Mike12]

Suspiria and Fulci? Italian horror movies ftw
I like all the papers on the floor, cool effect

Haha, thanks! Still making more trashed flats for some more variety.

And yeah, I was waiting for somebody to catch the Lucio Fulci reference.

[Conmon]

terrifying images

NO!
I will die if I see the Exorcist Face ever again.

3. Still on the fence about having human presence in the wad, but it's a possibility for sure.

You should include helper marines, but limit their presence to the first couple levels - another possibility is at the part when all of mankind flies off into space, you could have the player start out, able to watch the ships disappear into the clouds.

Just some ideas.

[Mike12]

terrifying images

NO!
I will die if I see the Exorcist Face ever again.

3. Still on the fence about having human presence in the wad, but it's a possibility for sure.

You should include helper marines, but limit their presence to the first couple levels - another possibility is at the part when all of mankind flies off into space, you could have the player start out, able to watch the ships disappear into the clouds.

Just some ideas.

Yeah, I'm considering the idea of having a level where you have to ensure that the last remnants of humanity make it to the shuttles, and then find and activate the controls to begin the launch sequence.

Also, making the ships launch into the clouds at the beginning of a level would be an extremely easy effect, all I'd have to do would be to make a ship texture, place it in a skybox, and set it to scroll upwards (once the texture scrolls into the clouds, it will disappear; vertical scrolling doesn't loop/repeat like horizontal scrolling, if i remember correctly. )

But as I said, it will all depend on how things work out.

[Hellstorm Archon]

NO!
I will die if I see the Exorcist Face ever again.

No, I didn't mean pop-up screamer worthy images.
I meant "terrifying" as in something seriously disturbing, much along the lines of the game "The Suffering".
Yeah, I'd like to see scary, but not those lame-ass pop-up screamers.