A mod-side way to force sector lighting mode

[Hellser]

Cuz' it's the main potato factor. iGPU's like mine are ONLY found on crappy CPU's/SoC's like mine.

Banging your head at bricks won't solve the problem.

Get a new laptop or slowly build a entry desktop PC, bud. God forbid, try one of those PCI-E-USB adapters with a cheap video card (Arc A310, brand new). Sure, you won't get 60FPS Ultra graphics but it's doable. iGPUs are always previous, sometimes previous-previous generations older than what's currently supported at the time of release. If anything, they're meant to give your computer some sort of graphical display with some capability of running software and looking at YouTube videos. Gaming for these iGPUs are always last in the list. There's a reason why AMD doesn't slap iGPUs onto their mainstream CPUs - and when they do, they let you know by adding the "G" affix to their lineup; Ryzen 5 4650G, for an example... It's because they know iGPUs are crap for gaming, and AMD is more centered towards the PC enthusiasts on the cheap. Intel on the other hand; I mean, I'm looking at the semi-latest iGPUs performance for their $409 CPU, the Core i5 13600k, at time of release. Borderlands 3 runs at 45.5 FPS on 360p on Very Low settings. Let that settle in. That's 360p. 640x360 for 16:9. That's DOS-era resolutions right there.

That's... What, two generations ago (again, time of release) entry level $50 GPU that's... only really capable of displaying a DWM and playing YouTube videos and maybe a Cookie Clicker / Bejeweled 3?

So to borrow what you said:

Banging your head at bricks won't solve the problem.

[dpJudas]

The Classic light mode should be called "Speed (for old systems)". "Software" should be the default if the system can handle it, and "Vanilla" is misleading and should be completely removed from the code IMO. Any references to it in mapinfo should be treated as "Software".

These names are horrible since this has nothing to do with "speed" or support for "old systems". What the user is really asked to choose between here is whether he wants to override the game default light mode (software) with a custom mode more to their liking.

Vanilla should be removed as its purpose was mostly to troll the "Doom 1.9 forever" community back in the day by showing that the actual vanilla math is just broken in general and not desirable to emulate 1:1 in a true color renderer. It is clear by now nobody actually wants that exact look.

[Graf Zahl]

These names are horrible since this has nothing to do with "speed" or support for "old systems". What the user is really asked to choose between here is whether he wants to override the game default light mode (software) with a custom mode more to their liking.

Just for trivia's sale, I did a similar lightmode tweak for Raze, because the original Build lighting has some really ugly traits so I added another one that's a less egregious. This is where 'classic' comes in for me personally. It's close enough but tones down the less appealing traits of the software light mode.

And I can outright tell that removing this mode from the menu will cause a lot more negative feedback than demoting the other light modes did.

[yum13241]

These names are horrible since this has nothing to do with "speed" or support for "old systems". What the user is really asked to choose between here is whether he wants to override the game default light mode (software) with a custom mode more to their liking.

The only reason Classic is even in the menu is for older systems, no one really likes it except for that one guy. Light modes were only invented because the hardware back then couldn't do the real "Software" mode, and no one knew how to even write it (remember the "Doom" mode? It was like "Dark" but you had a built in lamp, akin to Doom), and Dark is Classic. Same story with the fuzz. Why is it called Classic (faster)? It's to make clear to the user that Classic is faster than other modes, which by definition makes it speedier, but we can bikeshed all day.

Vanilla should be removed as its purpose was mostly to troll the "Doom 1.9 forever" community

Ask phantombeta, not me. AFAIK the "Software" option was intended to match ZDoom's renderer, but it looks EXACTLY like vanilla. Why would Graf allow a troll feature in the engine anyway?

Get a new laptop or slowly build a entry desktop PC, bud

Once I can get to the point in life where I can and will have to have a stable source of income. Right now, that's not exactly possible, and I'm trying to maximize what I can out of the hardware I have. While I have a respectable amount of money for a high-schooler (I don't mean to brag), barely any of that is in my hands (most of it is "Son, I need to borrow some money from you, I'll give it back to you")

Banging your head at bricks won't solve the problem.

I wasn't the person to use the "smiley". I'm just trying to say things objectively here, because dpJudas here is saying "Classic has nothing to do with older systems or speed", when it obviously does, and "these clearer names suck, Classic is only there for people who like it REEEEEEEE".

Just for trivia's sale, I did a similar lightmode tweak for Raze, because the original Build lighting has some really ugly traits so I added another one that's a less egregious. This is where 'classic' comes in for me personally. It's close enough but tones down the less appealing traits of the software light mode.

Classic in Doom removes the Doom from Doom lighting, i.e, it becomes this flat-ass Unity asset-flip style lighting.

I can't speak for Build's lighting since I haven't played a Build engine game or bothered to commit international crimes to get it just to get walked in on while playing Blood, other than that GZDoom's implementation was a permanent fullbright cheat if you turned off fog, which I can confidently say is not out of my ass because I filed the bug, and it has video proof.

It (Classic) looks like garbage, and if it's the only lightmode to stay I will literally learn GZDoom's user shaders just to bring Software back in out of spite. Oh yeah, I forgot, user shaders are disabled on GLES (good call), so I'm helpless in this situation.

Also, what do "Software" and "Vanilla" fall back to on GLES. It's clearly not "Classic", and a "secret" light mode is kinda weird.

[dpJudas]

And I can outright tell that removing this mode from the menu will cause a lot more negative feedback than demoting the other light modes did.

No doubt it would - for the same reason the others created such a feedback. I think the truth is that both Classic AND the other light modes are used/preferred by certain users of GZD. In that regard light modes are no different than say linear filtering, dynamic lights, bloom, AO, palette mode, etc. They all have people that want them and people that hate them.

Although the DW thread is full of so much crap, I think there is an element of truth to their complaint: why should some modes be explicitly blocked and others not? From my perspective I'm fine with people playing Doom any way they want, even if it meant to Brutal Doom or Reshade it. As long as they know this isn't how the game was looking originally I have no complaints. So from my perspective the issue isn't really about preventing users from accessing the light modes, but rather how we present them to the user in the menus. I fully respect that some people simply don't like the player lamp effect or want a reduced version of it.

The only reason Classic is even in the menu is for older systems

You really should spend more time reading what people are writing. Graf seems to be into the Classic light mode and I absolutely guarantee he isn't doing it for speed benefits.

[yum13241]

Graf seems to be into the Classic light mode and I absolutely guarantee he isn't doing it for speed benefits.

OK, Graf likes it, but it's called "Classic (FASTER)" for a reason. Because it's FASTER on OLDER hardware, at the expense of making Doom levels look like Unity asset flips.

And I can outright tell that removing this mode from the menu will cause a lot more negative feedback than demoting the other light modes did.

I think removing the option that looks the most like vanilla Doom and more importantly, other source ports, would cause an outrage if it did happen.

As long as they know this isn't how the game was looking originally I have no complaints

The menu does not do this well, if at all. As part of making it do that, "Classic (faster)" should be renamed to "Speed (for older hardware)", or "Old GZDoom (for older hardware)", "Software" should stay the same, and "Vanilla" can go to the shadow realm.

I fully respect that some people simply don't like the player lamp effect or want a reduced version of it.

I agree. But it should be clear that this is NOT how the original game looked like, wasn't designed with this lighting in mind (try E1M3's monster closet) and it can and probably does make lighting look off for custom maps as well. John Romero had to make a Twitter post because people were complaining about Sigil's lighting. He suggested using the Carmack renderer in GZDoom, but the Software option will do the same thing without y-shearing. (If you want the palette, you can even use it in Speed!)

You really should spend more time reading what people are writing

Maybe you should do the same You're ignoring my proposed solutions to the menu problem, and if you think my solution is inadequate, then suggest something better.
Obligatory POSIX newline at the end.

[dpJudas]

Maybe you should do the same You're ignoring my proposed solutions to the menu problem, and if you think my solution is inadequate, then suggest something better.
Obligatory POSIX newline at the end.

I'm ignoring your proposed solutions to the menu problems because it seems you do not really understand why I dislike the current menu. What you proposed does nothing to address what I wrote, or what OP requested, which is different by the way.

Also, I don't need to reach any consensus with you AT ALL. If I wanted to, I could just force a change into VKDoom. But, honestly, I'd rather find consensus with Graf on the matter. Or at least understand his perspective.

PS. Phantombeta has nothing do with the vanilla light mode in GZD.

[Hellser]

I think this conversation is done and over with...