Slowing down the player - Accepted in which circumstances?

[darkhaven3]

Design your level so that going in with all guns blazing, (as many Doomers seem to be limited to ) it will result in a quick and painful death. The game will automatically be slowed down if that tactic doesn't work in your level and a more careful approach is needed.

Of course, if you do so you'll get complaints from that group of players that seems to be incapable of changing their tactics - remember KDiZD Z1M1? It can't be played with classic Doom tactics without getting into serious problems so for some players the level is defective.

It's nothing to do with change in strategy: there's simply nothing fun about spending the entirety of such a long, monotonous level hiding around corners shooting low-level monsters with a pistol. (...)

What is totally and purely subjective...

I'm guessing you enjoy getting root canals, too

[wildweasel]

Yes, as a matter of fact, root canals are fun.

Really, though, this is how I design most of my mods - if a shooter just lets me zoom around and never let go of the fire button for anything ever, it gets boring. I like having to plan my movement around where there's a place to take cover, and occasionally take a risk by dashing towards a health item or pile of ammo that's out in the open and then quickly to other cover before I get bullet-hosed to death. Wide-open battle arenas are dumb, especially if they have no cover (especially if someone decides it's funny to throw an Arch-Vile into the works).

[darkhaven3]

Yes, as a matter of fact, root canals are fun.

I admit I had to reread this line of this post to make sure I'd read it properly, and I almost died suffocating on my own stupid laughter at this absolutely unfunny line for no reason

Really, though, this is how I design most of my mods - if a shooter just lets me zoom around and never let go of the fire button for anything ever, it gets boring. I like having to plan my movement around where there's a place to take cover, and occasionally take a risk by dashing towards a health item or pile of ammo that's out in the open and then quickly to other cover before I get bullet-hosed to death. Wide-open battle arenas are dumb, especially if they have no cover (especially if someone decides it's funny to throw an Arch-Vile into the works).

If I might take a page from your diary, wildweasel, sitting behind cover and having to peek out to shoot single rounds from your pistol at a time at stupidly powerful enemies because there's no other way to proceed is not fun, either

POINT: Not all maps are gigantic unplayable battle arena toshindens with no cover, but it seems okay for alot of maps these days to be made up of serieseses of hallways full of obnoxious obstacle-course detail with horribly monotonous gameplay (see: Z1M1)

[Ravick]

(...)
I'm guessing you enjoy getting root canals, too

No; what has absolutely nothing to do with what I had said, since it does not change the fact that the taste for gameplay modes are something subjective.
But whatever...

[darkhaven3]

(...)
I'm guessing you enjoy getting root canals, too

No; what has absolutely nothing to do with what I had said, since it does not change the fact that the taste for gameplay modes are something subjective.
But whatever...

And so are a person's taste for root canals. You can like root canals, if you want, but it is generally accepted that a root canal is a bad thing

[wildweasel]

I think you're mistaking your own opinion for solid fact.

[Ravick]

(...) but it is generally accepted that a root canal is a bad thing

What is not the case with the mentioned gameplay modes.
And that is why the comparison is unfounded. '-'

[zwouth]

countdown begins for first doom mod that includes both: root canals to slow down the player...

[Matt]

Are we talking about receiving or giving root canals?

[esselfortium]

Are we talking about receiving or giving root canals?

Sure are!

[Project Shadowcat]

I have absolutely no idea what the heck is going on in this thread.

[darkhaven3]

I think you're mistaking your own opinion for solid fact.

The words "bad", "terrible", and "unbearable" are all words that generally are used to describe subjective things; thus, believing a root canal feels horrible is subjective in nature, as is saying "well, that's just like, your opinion, man," to the greater part of the community that think a particular style of gameplay is stupid or terrible.

[Gez]

I have absolutely no idea what the heck is going on in this thread.

TL;DR version: KDiZD's first map was designed for dentists.

[Tormentor667]

Of course, if you do so you'll get complaints from that group of players that seems to be incapable of changing their tactics - remember KDiZD Z1M1? It can't be played with classic Doom tactics without getting into serious problems so for some players the level is defective.

This is exactly what I want to avoid. Some kind of approach that moves the player into a different gameplay-attitude in an intuitive way would be awesome, though I guess impossible to achieve if I am working with general Doom resources - players will expect the "usual".

So to get a bit more into detail imagine a map with Doom style monsters, resources, settings but with a more Doom3-ish atmosphere - scary, dark, tense. If you are able to rush through this map with the Doomguys regular speed, you totally loose that kind of atmosphere. The question now is: How can you slow that pace down?

I already had things in mind like scripted battles, for example, that lock you in a room, lights turn out, strange noises, something happens and "bang" monsters break through that you have to fight. This way the player gets in a situation that I would like to have for the whole map... you always have to be careful because everywhere there could be a different treat (and not only zombiemen getting teleported next to you)

[printz]

It's nothing to do with change in strategy: there's simply nothing fun about spending the entirety of such a long, monotonous level hiding around corners shooting low-level monsters with a pistol. (...)

What is totally and purely subjective...

I'm guessing you enjoy getting root canals, too

Do you always come up to rage at anyone who disagrees with esselfortium? I noticed this pattern.

Regarding the topic at hand, I'd say just relax and map the level as difficult and cumbersome as you like. But then again, unlike me, you (Tormentor667) actually do make levels so my advice is worthless. I'd still say that you can nicely slow gameplay down by placing shotguns and Barons in cramped places. Cramped enough not to make Barons boring (they may easily hit you badly if you're not paying attention). In fact, any Doom 2 monster + basic shotgun = win. Revenants are crazy.