DoomRL Arsenal - [1.1.5] [MP-B7.3]

[faslrn]

I haven't actually tried the v1.0 Scout yet - that's what I'm about to go do as soon as I've posted this, in fact - but I can't say I've ever had a problem getting my hands on decent pistols. I average about two handcannons per 30 map set, and I've played through enough wads that I'm fairly comfortable saying that's not just some crazy luck. Granted I won't see, say, a nuclear plasma pistol on EVERY megawad, I've only had the Cleric Baretta once, and I've never seen a legendary spawn in actual gameplay ever, but I'm pretty sure we can all agree that a handcannon with ANY assembly is one hell of a good weapon to tide you over.

I'm not saying it's impossible that you'll find yourself in a situation where you never find a decent pistol, but I do feel like it's pretty unlikely. Regardless, the Scout's my bestie, so I was gonna play him next anyway. I'll report back if my mind is changed.

On the matter of the Demolitionist, having just run through with him for the first time, I uh... I think he might be just a teensy bit overpowered. Or more accurately, he makes the Mother-in-Law overpowered as hell. And yes, I'm well aware that as a master assembly with two exotic mods in it, that's not an easy gun to get. But if you DO get it? You've basically won. Granted you can't stomp all over bosses and a couple of nightmare/armageddon enemies with it, but in those cases you can still clear out the rest of the room with one, maybe two shots, and the bosses are then much, much easier to dodge. Granted I'm playing without DoomRPG, but still. The Mother-in-Law felt balanced-ish before because of how easy it was to blow yourself to bits with the thing, but yeah, I feel like it could maybe use a tweak. My initial reaction would be maybe decrease its fire-rate, but that's just a thought.

On the other hand, things like the super machinegun and plasma cannon feel PERFECT with the demolitionist, and are amazing fun.

Not sure if I agree with the Mother-In-Law. Playing through Hellbound on FUCKING "THE HUNGRY" AROUND EVERY FUCKING CORNER Armageddon right now with the Demolitionist and although it can take out groups quickly, the delay between shots really kills it, especially if you are facing a monster where it can reflect projectiles. You are open for some time waiting to get to another weapon and unless you have cover, you will get killed.

Now, Nano Tristar Blaster with

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Cerberus Armor bonus

? Gravy baby. Up close to get all three projectiles in the face of an enemy and can take out groups with ease without the worry of self-damage is pretty dangerous...


for the enemies.


until your body armor breaks.


THEN I USE

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JETPACK WITH ANTI-GRAV BOOTS BABY.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

i agree with the Scout being the most comfortable picking off single targets, preferrably with a lot of distance. his strength is accuracy and reliability, and when he has the space to pick his targets off easily, he's god. and the Mother-In-Law definitely got a sizable buff, at least compared to how ridiculous a Nanomachic Napalm Launcher used to be. just make sure to have a faster rocket launcher in hand if you're a demolitionist. oh, and BFGs! rule number 1 with Demo, you can NEVER have too many BFGs on a hard-enough mapset.

the Renegade is definitely a lot more fun to play as now. he's got much more useful assemblies to work with his starter guns, and the Plasma Shotgun Mark II? it's really good. really really good.

[gunofdis]

Heavy plasma shotty is right behind MK II in damage (315 vs 378) for half the ammo and spread. I think the MK II is faster, though.


Overloaded plasma shotgun doesn't leave scorch marks on walls.

[Kaeoschassis]

just make sure to have a faster rocket launcher in hand if you're a demolitionist.

Or anything that combines decent fire-rate with high ammo use. (Like the aforementioned Super Machinegun, which honestly feels like it was made just to give the Demolitionist a bullet weapon.It's glorious. In theory a Plasma Rifle Mark II would probably be ace with him too, but I haven't got to try that yet) The Demolitionist doesn't have to be JUST about stuff that explodes, his ammo buff is really, really useful. And as you pointed out, it's amazing on BFGs, especially the nukes. He's a really fun class to play overall.
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Back to the scout, playing on UV, I had a marksman's pistol, handcannon and hunting revolver by the end of map04. The revolver is now high-power, the handcannon is now a mini-missile pistol, and I now have a combat pistol that's one mod away from being storm-assembled. I even saw a second hunting revolver lying around but who needs two? I'm only on map...09? I think. This is a SLIGHTLY luckier run than normal, but it's not that different from my usual experiences. I did have a panicky run-in with a bunch of Hungries on map02 when the only pistol I had was the peashooter, but I'd managed to grab a plasma rifle off an elite Z so I just emptied the thing in their general direction and that worked fine.

Balance-wise he's feeling good, but nearly all the pistols I'm using are 8x anyway, so I guess I won't be noticing much difference from the old scout... A thing to remember if you're having trouble is his computer map bonus, especially if you're playing on a mapset you don't know. It makes it a lot easier to know where the traps are going to be, which makes it much easier to not get cornered with an empty revolver in your hands.
'course, that doesn't help a damn against dog-damned shocktroopers...
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Let me echo the comment on the Heavy Double Shotty's reload animation by the way. Most satisfying reload I've seen in ages.

[gunofdis]

If you want to give the Demolitionist a bullet weapon, give him the Anti-materiel Rifle. For obvious reasons, I'll be calling it Bob from here on. In his hands Bob turns 2 bullets into a line of dead Barons at any range. Bob also lets him rocket jump, which he can't do normally because of his immunity to explosions. Finally, Bob just feels amazing to use.

[Doomguy914]

Is anyone else noticing a performance boost this update? The auras seemed like they used to use A LOT of processing power for some reason, but now I'm not getting slow down at all, (Even on Alt map 28-30.) I wonder if this is a result of Yholl and team going through the coding, or just a much more stable version of GZDoom. Either way this update is amazing! Great job guys!

[gunofdis]

Why does the laser shotgun cost twice as much ammo as similar weapons? It's not particularly powerful.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

just make sure to have a faster rocket launcher in hand if you're a demolitionist.

Or anything that combines decent fire-rate with high ammo use. (Like the aforementioned Super Machinegun, which honestly feels like it was made just to give the Demolitionist a bullet weapon.It's glorious. In theory a Plasma Rifle Mark II would probably be ace with him too, but I haven't got to try that yet) The Demolitionist doesn't have to be JUST about stuff that explodes, his ammo buff is really, really useful. And as you pointed out, it's amazing on BFGs, especially the nukes. He's a really fun class to play overall.

i meant you can afford to have two rocket launchers as a Demolitionist. one stronger, one faster. and for posterity's sake, have multiple BFGs, too! on hard mapsets like Sunlust, you can get away with having such a stupid min-maxed arsenal such as 4 different BFGs, honestly.

Why does the laser shotgun cost twice as much ammo as similar weapons? It's not particularly powerful.

it's incredibly powerful if you're a Demolitionist. two hits can kill a HK and Caco. i guess it could have 40 ammo instead of just 30, but it is pretty powerful. as a Renegade it probably could one-shot either of those creatures.

[gunofdis]

Yeah, but he can do that with the plasma shotgun or nuclear plasma shotgun just as easily.

Looking at it again, I guess it is a bit more powerful than an unmodded plasma shotgun: 20 damage pellets vs 15. 220 damage total on Renegade. Not terribly powerful for an assembled cell powered shotgun but I guess hitscan counts for something.

[Kaeoschassis]

i meant you can afford to have two rocket launchers as a Demolitionist. one stronger, one faster. and for posterity's sake, have multiple BFGs, too! on hard mapsets like Sunlust, you can get away with having such a stupid min-maxed arsenal such as 4 different BFGs, honestly.

Oh yeah, not disputing that for a second. It's more just that I didn't really give his ammo efficiency much credit myself, at first, and I kicked myself when I realized I was wasting it.
Also I semi-frequently have two BFGs on a technician as it is. Nuclear's useful for the unlimited ammo, but it's nice to have a BFG that DOESN'T take an age to recharge between shots, and Nuclear Armour isn't always an option.

Some extremely good points about Bob

Aye, but at that point you may as well just use one of the heftier rocket launchers again. If I were giving an Anti-Materiel Rifle to anybody, I'd give it to the technician. Two-or-three hitting vanilla Cybies? Yes please. The reason I recommended the Super Machinegun (Paul, henceforth) is specifically because it's rapid-fire (and doesn't even have a wind-up), yet still benefits from his ammo perk. Your chances of finding a rapid-fire rocket launcher are... not great. Paul's a handy thing to have equipped for dealing with room-clearing situations when one big blast from a slow weapon isn't enough, or for fast moving stuff (hi, hungries). Now that you point out Bob, though, a Sniper mod is much easier for the Demolitionist to cough up than a Firestorm is, and so long as you don't miss, it'll definitely kick ass.

[Yholl]

Yeah, but he can do that with the plasma shotgun or nuclear plasma shotgun just as easily.

Looking at it again, I guess it is a bit more powerful than an unmodded plasma shotgun: 20 damage pellets vs 15. 220 damage total on Renegade. Not terribly powerful for an assembled cell powered shotgun but I guess hitscan counts for something.

a bit!?

For reference, Plasma Shotgun shots are 5-25, Laser Shotguns are instant 5-35.

[gunofdis]

And a heavy plasma shotgun does 5-40 and 4 more of them :v Laser shotgun is nice, I'm just not sure it's double ammo cost nice.

[Yholl]

And a heavy plasma shotgun does 5-40 and 4 more of them :v Laser shotgun is nice, I'm just not sure it's double ammo cost nice.

OH GOD I JUST NOTICED WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE LASER SHOTGUN BRB FIXING

Also, you should actually use the gun before making an arguement like this. If you had, you'd never have brought it up to begin with.

[gunofdis]

I did use it, noticed that it was using double ammo and wandered off. It's expensive to make, expensive to use and isn't super exciting compared to its peers. Of those, the expensive to use was the part that bothered me (plus the constant reloading that implies) because the rest gets some credit for being hitscan.

Good job jumping in the end of a discussion and not bothering to see what's going on, I guess.

[Yholl]

I did use it, noticed that it was using double ammo and wandered off. It's expensive to make, expensive to use and isn't super exciting compared to its peers. Of those, the expensive to use was the part that bothered me (plus the constant reloading that implies) because the rest gets some credit for being hitscan.

Good job jumping in the end of a discussion and not bothering to see what's going on, I guess.

...disregarding the fact that this is my thread and I read every post in it...

Did you not notice you can one-shot Hell Knights with it? It can do over 700 damage right now.