New levels in Doom

[Gez]

To be fair, Sewers isn't as bad as Betray, which is the really, really bad level of the two. But it's still a bad level with a ridiculous layout.

[wildweasel]

The problems are all over the place - doesn't Sewers have almost no lighting and only uses four or five wall textures?

[BlueFireZ88]

Sure maybe a bit lazy in level design for both, but there at least playable compared to some of the other levels I've seen. I suppose when it comes to both it's one of those "your mileage may vary" moments. But still, I wish to use them.

Anyway, I have found a couple more levels I see as candidates, like before, your opinion on them may vary.

Sewers was already touted as E1M10 (though this will change to E1M0 for the sake of the IDCLEV cheat, and yes, it does work like that by typing "IDCLEV 1 0 )

The others I have picked is one called LKDETHV1 (Lake Death, it's a zip file if you look it up on Google) from the Maximum Doom collection, and sadly the only one that seems to have any semblance of interesting map design and playability. Does it compare to the ID levels, probably not, there are Secrets within secrets, and that's a big no-no. But this is the only level that seems to me the most fun. It'll probably end up being E2M0 in this case.

The other choice is one UAC_DEAD.wad, and this one best Wad of 1994 and is on the Top 100 Wads list. E4M0 if your curious. It probably doesn't compare to later Wads, but you have to remember, as soon as Doom 2 came out, Doom 1 for level making was left in the dust, making it harder to find GOOD levels for it. So I'm glad I found something worth my time.

Not sure about E3M0, though there is a level from Oblige I though of using, natural caverns with a Hell theme. Yeah I know, Oblige isn't worth the time, but I just couldn't find anything I liked. I wanted something with underground caves somewhere, so I took what I could get. The level isn't ready, it needs secrets, play testing, and more. I'll probably end up calling it "Much Obliged" to distinguish itself. If you got any single level suggestions to replace this level, by all means say it. However, if you want to look at it yourselves, I could upload it here.

[BlueFireZ88]

The problems are all over the place - doesn't Sewers have almost no lighting and only uses four or five wall textures?

Only some parts of it, it's well lite for the most part. Just so you know, I'm using bug fixed versions of these levels which are posted on Classic Doom.

[scalliano]

For me it would have to be the levels from the console ports of Doom: Hell Gate, Hell Keep, Twilight Descends, Threshold Of Pain, Redemption Denied, The Marshes and The Mansion (Club Doom doesn't count, since we're talking vanilla here).

[BlueFireZ88]

For me it would have to be the levels from the console ports of Doom: Hell Gate, Hell Keep, Twilight Descends, Threshold Of Pain, Redemption Denied, The Marshes and The Mansion (Club Doom doesn't count, since we're talking vanilla here).

There's a wad for that

http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... st+Episode

Have fun!

[SoulCrow]

there are Secrets within secrets, and that's a big no-no

Really? Didn't stop id Software last time I checked.

Sewers is a level that mostly consists of a maze with no changes in texture usage, lighting or height level (aside from, I believe, two sets of stairs). This means that most of the level is just bland and uninteresting, with nothing to distinguish one corridor from another. There is very little of interest in the maze itself aside from the blue key but there is no indication of where the key may be (because the maze's corridors all look the same). Behind the blue door is a fairly long corridor - once again with just one repeating wall texture - that is pitch dark with bright strobe lighting, meaning that if you fight anything in this corridor it is just an exercise in frustration (even more so when you consider that you are up against a number of Cacodemons and Spectres with only a shotgun). The rest of the level does not fare much better, with little archictecture to give rooms a lasting impression and no sense of flow when you play through the level. On top of this, the level features Lost Souls, Cacodemons and Barons of Hell as regular enemies, despite the level being placed in the first episode of Doom on the XBox.

To view this matter in a different light, why would you choose Sewers to be the bonus level for an episode? What makes Sewers stand out from most of the other 1994 WADs? Personally, I would pick one of the larger levels (like E2M7) of Enjay Doom if I had to choose from 1994 WADs.

[NeuralStunner]

Don't get these confused:

Secrets within Secrets: Actually putting a secret room behind a secret door. This is an awesome idea. Blake Stone did it all the time. It forces you to think beyond single secret rooms.

Required Items within Secrets: Such as keys, that are required to complete the map. This is what we call a very bad idea.

[BlueFireZ88]

there are Secrets within secrets, and that's a big no-no

Really? Didn't stop id Software last time I checked.

Sewers is a level that mostly consists of a maze with no changes in texture usage, lighting or height level (aside from, I believe, two sets of stairs). This means that most of the level is just bland and uninteresting, with nothing to distinguish one corridor from another. There is very little of interest in the maze itself aside from the blue key but there is no indication of where the key may be (because the maze's corridors all look the same). Behind the blue door is a fairly long corridor - once again with just one repeating wall texture - that is pitch dark with bright strobe lighting, meaning that if you fight anything in this corridor it is just an exercise in frustration (even more so when you consider that you are up against a number of Cacodemons and Spectres with only a shotgun). The rest of the level does not fare much better, with little archictecture to give rooms a lasting impression and no sense of flow when you play through the level. On top of this, the level features Lost Souls, Cacodemons and Barons of Hell as regular enemies, despite the level being placed in the first episode of Doom on the XBox.

To view this matter in a different light, why would you choose Sewers to be the bonus level for an episode? What makes Sewers stand out from most of the other 1994 WADs? Personally, I would pick one of the larger levels (like E2M7) of Enjay Doom if I had to choose from 1994 WADs.

Thank you, this is the kind of response I was looking for. It's one thing to call a level "bad", it's another to explain why it's bad.

Why would I choose Sewers you ask? What makes it stand out against other wads, well, I'll honestly tell you, I don't really know any good wads from 1994. The only other one I have is UAC_Dead and that's about it. Either I'm not looking in the right place or what, but I can't really seem to find any real good solid DOOM 1 levels. If you've got recommendations and where to find them, by all means, speak up!

Though I don't mind the level that much, probably keep it in this case. But still recommendations a plus!

[BlueFireZ88]

Don't get these confused:

Secrets within Secrets: Actually putting a secret room behind a secret door. This is an awesome idea. Blake Stone did it all the time. It forces you to think beyond single secret rooms.

Required Items within Secrets: Such as keys, that are required to complete the map. This is what we call a very bad idea.

My bad, I must have got the two confused then. I have heard of the second idea before, but I wasn't sure about the first. Maybe that's why I thought it was a bad idea.

[wildweasel]

Please do not make several posts in a row - there is an Edit Post button for that purpose. You can also quote multiple people in one post.

[Project Shadowcat]

Please do not make several posts in a row - there is an Edit Post button for that purpose. You can also quote multiple people in one post.

In his defense, not conveniently.
Further in his defense, I see a fair number of vets do the same thing and not get yelled at for it.

[wildweasel]

I honestly have a relatively high tolerance for this sort of thing, but it's getting difficult to stand it lately, especially in the face of folks like koverhbarc, who make upwards of four posts in a row in a short space of time.

I apologize if I've been snapping at people lately. The little things start adding up after a while.

[Project Shadowcat]

Just a suggestion, maybe you should take a little break for a few days, weasel. From a former mod to a current mod.

[Gez]

Why would I choose Sewers you ask? What makes it stand out against other wads, well, I'll honestly tell you, I don't really know any good wads from 1994.

Read through this; it's not exhaustive, but it's a start.