[release] The Phobos Directive, direct to you

[Csonicgo]

Yeah I don't have good taste in getting stuck in switch-activated polyobject doors

[wildweasel]

Alright, I've given the mod a little more playtime, and now that I actually have some idea of what I'm doing, I really only have a few other nuggets of feedback...

• I wish the fade-out, fade-in sequence for warping between maps was a bit quicker. I accidentally stepped on the wrong pad and it took a while to get where I actually wanted to go.
• I don't understand why there is a teleport pad from Sector II to Sector V in the courtyard where I found the radiation suit.
• The map design is too familiar. I felt like I was playing on autopilot, like I've played these maps many times in the past. I would have appreciated a bit more gameplay difference between this and phobos-v - even something silly like mirroring the entirety of a map. Just something to throw off the veterans.
• Ehh...I figure you probably could have labeled the teleporters a bit better, since as mentioned in a previous post, I thought they were cryo tubes...
• And finally, hey, if anybody is still annoyed at this project having (accidentally?) broken support for external weapon sets, I just finished a pack of guns specifically designed for this, if anybody's interested I'll post the patch in another thread.

You've done a not-too-shabby job with this project, Rex and company.

@csonicgo, not everybody thinks to test for cases of players standing in doors that are closing. I dunno. =P

[Amuscaria]

I've just briefly played through the firsts map - at least as far as I could get with my limited time; giving up after I found myself running around in circles. From what I've seen, the criticisms presented prior isn't without their merit, albeit, there does appear to be quite a vendetta against this mod in particular from the sheer effort put into criticizing this mod. The trollish tirades being passed around as feedback is rather unnecessary and doesn't look good on the ones making it.. But I won't get into that, as it's irrelevant to what I have to say about about the mod so far.

Here is what I like and dislike about this mod from what I was able to see (will give you more feedback when I have the time to play more of this).

Likes:
-Brightmaps are a nice touch, it makes the textures jump out more.
-There are some really nice effort put into the 3D structures, such as the pipes and water pumps (?).
-The added use of 3D floors give an improve sense of depth to the levels.
-Hubs are interesting to me, and I look forward to seeing how this will work out for doom.

Dislikes:
-Monsters are really OPed. I'm not saying this from the perspective of rather the gameplay style suits my tastes or not, but rather all the monsters have better weapons than the player. I mean, if the shotgunners will drop the shotgun, at the very least I should have the same firing rate. Maybe that's just some custom difficulty setting for UV, I don't know.

-Visually, I'm going to have to say the maps look rather displeasing. While I like the 3D structure and the amount of work put into make those, details seems to be lacking in everything else around those structures. It's as if after making the 3D floors, you for tired and didn't feel like working on the rest of the room. The result is pockets of isolated detailed areas surrounded by otherwise empty areas with little of no detailing. This creates a very inconsistent feel. It seems like 2 different people worked on a map, while one person map the layout, the other was going to do the nitty gritty detailing but never finished.

Another problem with the detailing, relating to the previous point, is the color choices. I generally enjoy some high contrasts, but what I've seen in these maps is, for the lack of better words, visually chaotic. Just in the first map, there are neon blue floor carpet (with the UAC logo) surrounded by a bright red border, surrounded by a bright yellowish brown floor. Artistically, this goes against all color theory and it just burns the eyes to look at from the colors alone. See below:




Since the texture misalignment has been mentioned, I won't recite that point as it would be beating a dead horse. There are some small texture problems outside of just aligning them for visuals sake. The below screenshot is one such area; the glass isn't aligned to make it look like a sealed container. Probably just a small oversight.



There are also numerous areas that the structures defies rational sense, at least in my personal opinion. There is a ceiling where there are 3 computer screens on a slope, and some of them are bent to that slope. I'm not sure what there are screens place on the ceiling that requires a person stare straight up to look at it, but that aside, a bent LCD screen is kind of silly and serves no logical purpose. Over all, there are a lot of detailing that seems to be placed just for the sake of detailing. Like pockets of detail that was placed in just to make the room look more full, but not actually give a consistent sense of location, theme, nor anything physically meaningful. I think it would be better to remove these areas altogether, or at least spread them out more so it looks consistent through out the entire map. See Below:



Finally, regarding detail, while there are lots of details in the map in general, there aren't much in areas that I think would benefit from their presence. Below is a screenshot of such:



With all the slopes that has been used for the water tanks and pipes, it's really odd to see a giant hole in the wall using 94 style detailing. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not but from where the texture is cut off, I'm assuming it's supposed to be a hole, and not some sort of brick opening. Some slopes here would probably make it look better?

Finally, a nitpick I found while running around. The room with the nukage tanks has a gap in the 3D floor above the tank.



I will post more when it is available.

[ReX]

I guess this means you won't be trying to defend the wad against any of the points he made, then.

I didn't feel the need to "defend" my choices back then, and I see no reason to do it now. You don't like my texture choices or the way I apply them to walls? Good for you. But don't imagine for a moment that your anal attention to texturing somehow makes your work better than those who don't share your choices.

You, sir, are a .... what's the name for it? The ugly, hairy thing that tends to live under bridges and occasionally comes out to visit forums? I'll get the name one of these days.

I made that post at the end of a long, tough day at work. My annoyance with darkhaven was improperly misdirected to esselfortium, and for that I apologize.

[For the record, I did engage in a civil discussion on texturing choices on the DW forums. The fact that I did not entirely agree with Fisk's/darkhaven's suggestions is probably why he took it upon himself to be insulting and demeaning. I don't recall ever implying that Fisk's preferences were inferior, so it's puzzling why he chose to be so vituperative.]

EDIT: Just noticed this post:

Spare me the smug attitude. If you'd like to have a mature, adult two-way exchange of thoughts I'd be perfectly willing to participate, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time with this. Darkhaven wrote the post you're so mad about; there's no reason to be so rude to me or anyone else about it. For the record, though, you completely misconstrued the point of nearly every segment you responded to, much like in the completely polite and direct discussion on DW a year ago.

Hardly smug. Someone insisting that I have to like what they do, and then being insulting when I don't agree, is worthy of ridicule. Had the discussion taken the civil tone of the DW discussion, I probably wouldn't have responded to his posts, despite your needling. And, no, i don't believe I have misconstrued anything. Those are darkhaven's preferences, not universally recognized paradigms. If he hated bad texturing and low detail so much, he wouldn't hold E1 in such high regard (notwithstanding Tango's bullshit about 1993 vs. 2011).

The bottom line is this: If you and others want to apply your texturing principles, go for it. If I want to apply wall-papering, do me the same courtesy and allow me to do it without being badgered. You don't have to play the game if it offends your sensibilities so much.

[ReX]

Yeah I don't have good taste in getting stuck in switch-activated polyobject doors

Still not helpful. If you think it's a bug, and are interested in helping fix it, please provide specifics (as I requested earlier in this thread).

If you simply want to point out a bug (with which, by the way, no one else seems to have been afflicted) and use that as an indicator of how sucky the game is, have at it. Somehow, though, I doubt your behavior will be regarded as mature.

... this has to be what bugs me most. how could anyone possibly insult such attention to detail? ....

right, i get it; you can just pull the same "i map for myself / i don't care what anyone else thinks" and leave it at that. but where the hell is the productivity in that? the fact that you are so willing to settle on something that is quite obviously below the community's standards in this day and age (don't you dare call me a minority; try posting this on somewhere like doomworld where they don't hand out warm fuzzies and where Wild "Peacemaker" Weasel isn't around to threaten everyone) is what i don't understand the most. why would you not bother considering actually trying out what is being suggested? you might find it actually looks good.

your whole attitude seems completely counter-productive to what the community's goals are as a whole. yes, they are unwritten, but nonetheless there. you wonder why Darkhaven was so quick to be overly aggressive? he already tried peaceful, "constructive" feedback last year on the Doomworld thread, and, as essel pointed out, he was completely ignored because of the attitude that "if i like it, it's never changing". thankfully not everyone has the same closed-minded ideals, otherwise we'd be stuck in 1994.

Tango, I never said I have a problem with others using the texturing principles discussed here and on DW. [As a matter of fact, if a mapper wishes to apply them I probably would notice. But I'm not seeking it out when I play a map.] What I do have a problem with is you and others insisting that the only way to do it is to apply your principles. Hence, the "anal" reference. In all honesty, I don't find the deviations from those principles to be detracting from the overall look and feel of a map. I don't hold it against you that you find it to be detracting, but by the same token I don't insist that you have to like what I do. You, on the other hand, appear to believe that I am obliged to like what you do. What is important to you, apparently, must be important to me. Unfortunately, the degree of texturing you advocate is not important to me.

You don't like the texturing or the detailing? Good for you. Perhaps others will agree with you. Perhaps others will agree with you to the point that they consider the game to be crap. Good for them. Do you see me arguing that they have to like the game because of all the stuff we put into it? Did the Team once, even once, imply that we've created a great game? To you the game is crap; you don't have to play it again (or even once). To me, and many others, the game is cool. I don't believe you have a leg to stand on.

[*]I wish the fade-out, fade-in sequence for warping between maps was a bit quicker. I accidentally stepped on the wrong pad and it took a while to get where I actually wanted to go.

You may have a point there. However, it's only 3 seconds fade in and 3 seconds fade out, and I (and the other testers) probably got accustomed to it during the myriad types of testing we performed.

[*]I don't understand why there is a teleport pad from Sector II to Sector V in the courtyard where I found the radiation suit.

TUD did question that choice very early in the testing process. However, we kept the teleport pad there so that players could go directly to Sector V after picking up the radiation suit (i.e., after completing the pre-requisite for Sector V). Of course, the player can choose not to do so, and return to Sector I, the center of the hub.

[*]The map design is too familiar. I felt like I was playing on autopilot, like I've played these maps many times in the past. I would have appreciated a bit more gameplay difference between this and phobos-v - even something silly like mirroring the entirety of a map. Just something to throw off the veterans.

I didn't think about that. I figured that people had forgotten the original wad from 2004, making The Phobos Directive seem new again.

You've done a not-too-shabby job with this project, Rex and company.

Damning with faint praise. Heh.

@csonicgo, not everybody thinks to test for cases of players standing in doors that are closing. I dunno. =P

The thing is, I have repeatedly tested the closing of that door while standing in it. No sign of the bug s/he mentioned.

Rex? In sector 6, I made a huge jump to where the circuit board is located. Then I got stucked... then ultra killed Nothing too serious but maybe worth telling...

That's intended part of the game-play (not the ultra-killing part, just the teleporting part). Once you pick up the circuit board enemies teleport in (the number and type depend on the skill level at which you're playing). Once you kill them you automatically teleport back. I have repeatedly tested that fight at UV skill with only the shotgun upgrade (which is available right before you teleport) and survived. To help you weather the punishment there's a readily available (i.e., not a secret) portable SoulSphere on the map.

[ReX]

There are some small texture problems outside of just aligning them for visuals sake. The below screenshot is one such area; the glass isn't aligned to make it look like a sealed container. Probably just a small oversight.

Good catch. A tester had identified an alignment problem with the window frames, but all of us missed the glass.

There are also numerous areas that the structures defies rational sense, at least in my personal opinion. There is a ceiling where there are 3 computer screens on a slope, and some of them are bent to that slope. I'm not sure what there are screens place on the ceiling that requires a person stare straight up to look at it, but that aside, a bent LCD screen is kind of silly and serves no logical purpose.

Actually, I've been in many military installations that have ceiling monitors. They aren't intended for extended viewing, and are usually meant to display key data, alarms, etc.

Also, about the curving (arched) ceiling monitors, I had originally visualized them using a graphite-plastic composite. Don't laugh. Heh.

With all the slopes that has been used for the water tanks and pipes, it's really odd to see a giant hole in the wall using 94 style detailing. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not but from where the texture is cut off, I'm assuming it's supposed to be a hole, and not some sort of brick opening. Some slopes here would probably make it look better?

Agreed. I'm not sure why I missed this. If there's an updated version of the game we'll be sure to address this.

Finally, a nitpick I found while running around. The room with the nukage tanks has a gap in the 3D floor above the tank.

I'm trying to recall why I did it that way. I know there was a reason for it, but I forget why. [And how the heck did you get up there in the first place? Heh.]

[Reinchard2]

I'm stuck in sector IV. I have 6/6 secrets and 100 % killed monsters, but still don't have green key. Any ideas?

[TheDarkArchon]

You're looking in the wrong map. Look in sector VII

[PFL]

REX, what I really meant was that a fine practice of the jump/crouch technique can get you at some places that weren't intended to. I got there before I activated the switch downward. I also made some shifty moves toward secrets to get them in a way that seemed impossible. I give you a picture of what I mean by getting stuck while trying to move too much in the place...



By the way, MAP 7 is wonderful. And I love the green card surprise access :- ) I hate to say that, but I'm about to finish the game and I feel it'll be a long time before I find something as strong as this, bugs and shit included

[Hellstorm Archon]

Gave this a quick playthrough, and enjoying it so far. Only thing is, the rapid fire zombiemen does make sense, but the rapid fire shotgun guys not only make the game somewhat Nintendo Hard, but they also seem kind of LOLWUT.

[PFL]

Game finished to a 100%. WOW. Epic final for me. EPIC.

[ReX]

REX, what I really meant was that a fine practice of the jump/crouch technique can get you at some places that weren't intended to. I got there before I activated the switch downward. I also made some shifty moves toward secrets to get them in a way that seemed impossible. I give you a picture of what I mean by getting stuck while trying to move too much in the place...

Yes, that appears to be a bothersome bug that went unnoticed. Thanks for bringing it to our attention; it can be easiy fixed by making the window blocking.

During play-testing TUD did specifically ask about areas that could be reached by the jump/crouch technique, and we thought we'd covered them all.

[ReX]

Gave this a quick playthrough, and enjoying it so far.

Game finished to a 100%. WOW. Epic final for me. EPIC.

I knew we must have done a few things right. Thank you both for your kind words.

About the shotgunner - you're right in that it leaves little room for mistakes, especially before you get any armor. For my part, perhaps because I know the maps so well, I keep a respectful distance from them (or encourage in-fighting to thin the herds). Despite that, however, I get taken by surprise occasionally.

[Tormentor667]

I took the time to read through most of the criticism and comments today concerning the level of detail and I just wanted to give my two cents now before I have to start working today

I am currently playing the mod every time I have a few minutes left and I am totally enjoying it in any kind of way. Sure, there are a few issues left that have already been picked out but overall the whole mod is a very cool and well-done mod. I really like how original areas have been incorporated in the maps and it's nice to have these "dejavu" moments here and there. The gameplay is challenging but also addictive as you just want to continue and visit more places that you have already seen in the original episode on Phobos.

Now about the design and level of detail: This is not KDiZD, it's not TSoZD ... but who cares? It's "The Phobos Directive" and was never meant to be a visual overhaul of the original episode 1. I actually think (and yes, it's me who says this ) that the level of detail and design is just right for the project, it's consistent and it looks fine to me. I really appreciated the maps so far and I wasn't disappointed if some areas looked a bit bland or only textured with STARTAN, as I simply didn't care, I just wanted to proceed and see what's coming up next

I think it's mostly a question of personal taste and personal demand. I really love maps that have a high level of detail, but it's not that I actually need this to have fun with a map pack. Just for a little example:I loved "The Ultimate Needs More Detail", it has brilliant gameplay and perfectly catches what it aimed for. No one ever cared about it that it's level of detail was close to the original episodes. Why? Because it was meant to look like this. So why do people complain now about Rex' maps and its level of detail even though it was maybe meant to look like this? Think about it.

Other than that: Great job guys, I can't wait to finish it

[Enjay]

Gave this a quick playthrough, and enjoying it so far. Only thing is, the rapid fire zombiemen does make sense, but the rapid fire shotgun guys not only make the game somewhat Nintendo Hard, but they also seem kind of LOLWUT.

I think you are right to point out the rapid-fire Zombies (especially the shotgunners). It was something that I think all the play testers commented on at least once. However, once we all got the tactics right they seemed to cease being a problem. Personally, I quite liked them right off the bat but if you have played any of my maps in recent years, you'll know that I rather like hitscan enemies with relatively low hitpoints but carrying fairly punishing weapons.

Perhaps there is something "LOL WUT" about the rapid fire shotgunners. As was pointed out earlier in the thread it is perhaps a bit "off" that these guys can pepper you with rapid-fire shotgun shots but when you pick up their weapon after killing them the gun just has the normal rate of fire. However, the upgraded version does improve the RoF but I can't remember how it well it corresponds to the RoF of the Zombie shotgunners.

Nice to see some positive comments this morning and even Torm saying "doesn't need more detail". . This is a day for the diary I think.

I haven't had a chance to speak to Rex about this but I suspect that there have been enough little "bits and pieces" highlighted (eg the crouch/jump window and so on) that a revised version probably should be made so if people could keep submitting bug reports (etc) it would be appreciated.