Important announcement regarding my involvement with ZDoom

[Rachael]

Maybe ZDoom should just become what GZDoom already is, and Graf can become the main developer and Randy can contribute.

Don't get me wrong, what Randy has already done is great. I think ZDoom IS one of the best source ports out there, and Skulltag members may brag that Skulltag is the best, but Skulltag would be nothing without ZDoom. You gotta remember what the grass roots are. I like Skulltag, but development is about half as slow as ZDoom, and it does not get many updates often.

But with Randy being busy with work/WoW/whatever, it could be beneficial to allow someone else to make decisions for a while. I really don't see any reason why the two source ports [ZDoom and GZDoom] should continue to be forked.

[Graf Zahl]

All idle speculation!

[Tormentor667]

I like Skulltag, but development is about half as slow as ZDoom, and it does not get many updates often.

I actually doubt that as the progress of Skulltag is going awesomely fast and well since all those new coders joined

But I have to agree, ZDoom & GZDoom going seperate ways seems to make no sense at the moment, but considering what Graf Zahl tries to get into ZDoom for ages now without any success or answer by Randy, it's the only consequence he can take. And - as I already said - GZDoom's future looks promising anyway And if we have enough look, Graf Zahl will aim for ZDoom/Skulltag compatibility as the Skulltag coders do and if we have even more luck, this whole discussion about problems with GZDoom code in Skulltag will also vanish. The more intercompatibility have with mods, the better it is (considering that GZDoom can even run Vavoom and Legacy maps ^^)

[PlayerLin]

Doom community already forked due forked source ports.

Even I just only use GZDoom because I prefer GL renderer. But GZDoom is based on ZDoom. So I like GZDoom, and like ZDoom too, even I run it sometimes. (Sorry, Randy. )

But if ZDoom and GZDoom forked, I will disappointed because maybe I can't play any awesome ZD wads on GZD. It's horrible!! Maybe new GZD features can let me happy but I still sad because ZD wads doesn't work with GZD.


"No update" is why I give up Legacy and change to ZDoom/GZDoom.


Off-topic with STUPID complaint below...sorry Graf Zahl.

...The more intercompatibility have with mods, the better it is (considering that GZDoom can even run Vavoom and Legacy maps ^^)

I have a Legacy map which modified id's Doom2 map by my friend, and it used some FS but that's doesn't fully work on GZDoom, it still playable but lose somethings. I don't know what's wrong... maybe bugged FS or GZDoom doesn't supports it......

[Graf Zahl]

GZDoom's FS is not fully compatible with Legacy. That's because my code is based on Eternity's old implementation that had some differences. If you can send me the map and point out the problems I'll try to see what is wrong with it.

[randi]

So, this has been here over a week, and I still don't know what to say. I don't like feeling villified like this, and I would prefer to ignore it and have it go away. But...

What is with this attitude that ZDoom is now dead? It's not. The truth is that I've been somewhat demoralized from doing anything very significant because I don't want to get have my local copy uncompilable for an extended period of time and then when it's working and I go to commit it, I find that Graf has made several conflicting changes and I have have to figure out how to work them in to what I've done or scrap my work and start over. So I either work with something I know he won't touch, like the sound system, or I look at the bugs forum, or I go do something completely unrelated. A big part of the reason you don't have a scripting language yet is that I just didn't feel safe working on it with an unstable base.

As regards the release schedule, how many ports actually have a frequent release schedule? That aside, there have been several times this last year when I felt like doing a release after whittling down the bugs forum some. While I'm doing that, Graf makes some major changes and I feel I can no longer do a release because they need further testing. Converting all the actor states to DECORATE is a specific example of this. I was getting ready for a release, then that happened, and I could no longer do a release in good faith.

Some people also seem to have a misconception about the purpose of the feature requests forum. When I created it, it was there to serve as an idea repository that I could turn to for ideas if I wanted a diversion or finished whatever big project of the time I was working with. As such, you shouldn't expect me to be sifting through it and closing every request within days of its submission. Maybe there's something in there I'd like to do at some time, but not right now. Should I close it? Do I really need to post in every one, "Good idea. I'll get to that later."? I also considered DECORATE Graf's domain, so I didn't bother looking at those, which seem to make up the majority of the forum, leaving them to him.

And finally:

We, ZDoom's users are your customers

Funny, I don't remember getting any money from you. How can you be my customer if you have given me nothing whatsoever for it? (Also, how dare you presume to speak for everyone when you're just speaking for yourself.)

[Wills]

Well, I appreciate you actually posting.

I hate to be the big "LOOK AT ME, I HAVE THE ANSWERS" guy, but your (as in Graf and randy) basic problem seems to be a lack of communication. As randy said, he will be ready to release a new version only to have Graf implement a new feature that needs testing. Neither one of you is completely at fault, but some simple exchange regarding what should be done, what should wait until the next version, things like that would help to clear up a good deal of the problem. IE "Let's work on this and this, then test it and release it, and we can put this other thing in the next version."

[DoomRater]

Yeah, the two of you sitting down on what should go on towards ZDoom and what should wait would be the best course. I keep feeling that if these issues had been addressed earlier we'd have a direction to go. On the other hand, you could always go the direction Rockbox did with a link to daily builds...

[Graf Zahl]

What is with this attitude that ZDoom is now dead? It's not. The truth is that I've been somewhat demoralized from doing anything very significant because I don't want to get have my local copy uncompilable for an extended period of time and then when it's working and I go to commit it, I find that Graf has made several conflicting changes and I have have to figure out how to work them in to what I've done or scrap my work and start over. So I either work with something I know he won't touch, like the sound system, or I look at the bugs forum, or I go do something completely unrelated. A big part of the reason you don't have a scripting language yet is that I just didn't feel safe working on it with an unstable base.

That is the whole reason? In that case all that trouble could have been avoided if you had just notified me.
I would have left the code alone if you had just asked me. I was assuming that since you were not working on it it was safe for me to change.

All the changes I made to the DECORATE system were to take out old code that would have gotten in the way sooner or later so I thought it'd be beneficial to any future scripting language.

And if you are concerned about working on something for an extended period of time, there's always branches. If I were to do something time consuming that's not going to work out of the box a branch would be the perfect place to do it, even if some revision does not compile. It worked perfectly for the garbarge collector and it has the advantage that even though it's unstable the code is out there for public review. Feedback from others is something I highly value when programming so it'd be the perfect solution for me.

Personally, I'd like to close this chapter as quickly as possible and preferably pretend it never happened. I have to admit that my frustration got the better of me last week.

It seems to me that we both made the same mistake in not properly communicating our plans to each other. I'd like to change that so that such situations can be avoided in the future. I understand that the public forum may not be the best place to do this but I personally have a strong dislike for PM's so I tend to avoid them probably more than is good.

So what do you think about a hidden 'Developers' forum where only active developers of ZDoom and its child ports have access to? There we could discuss such things in a setting I'd feel more comfortable with.

[Nash]

I can't image collaborating on something without communicating at all. In that respect, it's a miracle it worked for ZDoom... :P

[DoomRater]

What do you think about a hidden 'Developers' forum where only active developers of ZDoom and its child ports have access to? There we could discuss such things in a setting I'd feel more comfortable with.

This.

[Spleen]

I personally have a strong dislike for PM's

Would you mind telling us why ? Thank you.

[esselfortium]

Take it to PM, please.

[Graf Zahl]

I personally have a strong dislike for PM's

Would you mind telling us why ? Thank you.

Maybe because abusively being PM'd by too many people will do that?

[Tubers]

I personally have a strong dislike for PM's

Would you mind telling us why ? Thank you.

Maybe because abusively being PM'd by too many people will do that?

Do you mean the same shitty PM's?