OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby Kinsie » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:14 pm

-Ghost- wrote:
Kinsie wrote:This mod was pretty decent, if flawed, and I was going to suggest ways to improve it (indeed, I talked about about it on the next episode of the Intermission podcast!) but now I guess I'll just have to keep an eye out for Duke: Major Crisis instead.


You should post your feedback, it'd be interesting to see your take on it, you're a great Doom modder.
For one, the attempts to work around not using +FLATSPRITE (blood stains, flashlight) just... don't work very well at all. I mean, an attempt was made, but it just doesn't work out. Some of those might be fixed by using different, more suitable art (the squished duke blood stains are particularly egregious).

For another, while there's some fun ideas present, they need some extra twiddling and experimentation. For example, there is no disadvantage to using the Shotgun's auto mode instead of it's pump mode if you tap the fire key instead of holding it - you get the faster firing rate of auto mode without the recoil effect. In addition, while playing TNT I was unable to pop a grenade through one of the narrow windows in the centre arena of MAP03.

These are all fairly minor blemishes on a pretty promising package, and all things that can be handled with additional iteration... but I guess that ain't happening anymore, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby osjclatchford » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:49 am

my god you're all still going on about this?

its crazy!

oh and kinsie I gotta say that this:

Kinsie wrote:there is no disadvantage to using the Shotgun's auto mode instead of it's pump mode if you tap the fire key instead of holding it - you get the faster firing rate of auto mode without the recoil effect...


is utterly incorrect. in pont of fact the shotgun's auto fire mode (even gently tapping it) is significantly reduced in damage output per shot. this is the cost as it were.
try it on a hellknight for example: pump, four good shots to kill, auto 5 or more.
again, on a caco. pump, three good shots to kill, auto 4 or more.

but regarding this:
Kinsie wrote:+FLATSPRITE (blood stains, flashlight) just... don't work very well at all. I mean, an attempt was made, but it just doesn't work out...

and this:
Doomenator wrote:Regarding the flashlight in zdoom 2.8.1 nothing has changed, it looks even worse...

so you don't like how it looks? big surprise seems noone does? but tell me how am I supposed to use flatsprites or special light effects in zdoom 2.8.1? Obviously I can't can I. so you know a better way? then tell me, suggest something. this is what I'm getting at.
simply changing the art ain't gonna do squat. it will still work the same way...
i feel that just saying "this looks bad" is crappy feedback because If there is no suggestion for improvement it just makes the author feel bad about their project. to be honest I know it looks shite compared to what it could look in a better engine. but despite that I was kinda amazed at how good I had managed to get it looking without breaking the zdoom engine boundaries I had set for myself.

anyway even though I said I was done with this The main link is changed. in truth simply to remove the gzdoom (compatible) version to reduce filesize as it obviously seems there is no need for it... a few other things have changed too but its mostly bugs and other bits I had been working on.
further changes may be made in the future (simply so that I have an online backup) but no further developments will be logged here...
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby Kinsie » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:03 am

osjclatchford wrote:my god you're all still going on about this?
It's almost as if this isn't a bad mod, and we're trying to be helpful by providing advice that can make it better!

What is up with you? Are you always this sensitive about polite, reasonable feedback?

osjclatchford wrote:oh and kinsie I gotta say that this:
Kinsie wrote:there is no disadvantage to using the Shotgun's auto mode instead of it's pump mode if you tap the fire key instead of holding it - you get the faster firing rate of auto mode without the recoil effect...


is utterly incorrect. in pont of fact the shotgun's auto fire mode (even gently tapping it) is significantly reduced in damage output per shot. this is the cost as it were.
try it on a hellknight for example: pump, four good shots to kill, auto 5 or more.
again, on a caco. pump, three good shots to kill, auto 4 or more.
This isn't enormously intuitive - there's no audiovisual difference between the two shots outside of the pump effect. Tweaking the shot sound for the auto mode to make it sound subtly weaker (or making the pump firing sound a bit beefier) would tell the user this without any words needed, and make the difference between the two modes clearer.

osjclatchford wrote:simply changing the art ain't gonna do squat. it will still work the same way...
Alternative art will better suit the limitations you've set yourself.

Take, for example, the old versions of Nashgore. They were able to represent blood stains on the ground using standard sprites in a way that didn't look "weird" or out of place in the world of Doom. Here are a few examples I pulled out of an old mod of mine (ReDoom) that heavily abused Nashgore, so I can't remember if these sprites were mine or Nash's.

Image Image Image Image

Simple, effective, and not actively fighting the source artwork like the squished Duke bloodstain. Of course, that could be photoshopped into something better-fitting with a bit of Perspective Transform magic...
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby osjclatchford » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:19 am

Point taken and understood regarding the gore. However those are the sprites that i did the duke style ones to replace. Seems i feel the same way you feel about my dukish splats about nash's ones. Lol neverind...

Its never going to please everyone style wise... Twould simply be impossible to and that's never been my intent. Got to stick to your guns on things you love but I'm very slowly accepting that some of these points raised are coming from the intention of assistance rather than simple criticism... wood for the trees and all that... :shrug: still stand by what I've said though. It's an opinion. Not a fact. Just as your suggestions are. It's a tupney aipney little mod that doesn't really demand this much attention. To be honest i expected it to just go unnoticed. I guess that's coloured my judgement? Who cares anymore. I certainly don't...

And as for the shotgun. The HUD has a different xhair to show firing modes and the pump mode does a zoomy thing that the auto mode doesn't... Im starting to feel that's just not enough as well as you guys. Perhaps I'll beef up the sound a bit. Its not a bad idea. To be honest I've not been 100% on the sound of choice for the riotgun since I've been playing this... For the very reason that the pump version sounds/ feels gutless because of it... i mean it's not gutless but the sound makes it seem that way... i dunno anymore...It seems very fitting for the auto mode though...
Last edited by osjclatchford on Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby wildweasel » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:32 am

Don't be shy about mixing extra sounds into your existing stuff, either. You could find some pretty good results by taking, say, the sound of a bass drum or the echo from another gunshot and mixing it into the sound. Achieving the right volume balance with that, however, is the sort of thing you'd need to practice and learn for yourself, and develop an ear for.
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby osjclatchford » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:35 am

:wink: Yes done stuff like that back in the day when i worked on a few recordings for some lesser known artists...

I've an extensive library... :D truth be told I'm biased by the design choice being the inspiration of q2 and doom 3 hence the nadelauncher/rocketlauncher sounds and the plasma sounds respectively. Cos I've got those games in mind i cant seem to seperate myself from them sound wise. This is also why the chaingun's sounds like it does.(q2... ) The gl is a bit gutless too. Deii is right there...
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby Doomenator » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:25 pm

osjclatchford wrote:so you don't like how it looks? big surprise seems noone does? but tell me how am I supposed to use flatsprites or special light effects in zdoom 2.8.1? Obviously I can't can I. so you know a better way? then tell me, suggest something. this is what I'm getting at.
simply changing the art ain't gonna do squat. it will still work the same way...
I think you have some problems. I will try to say how I see it.
You did know that the flashlight will look shitty and it can't be done better. And still decided to do it. Now you use that as an excuse and ask me how to improve it. Just great.
Remove the flashlight. It will make mod better. And sorry for my crappy feedback. It will never happen again, really.
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby osjclatchford » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:10 am

Doomenator wrote:I think you have some problems. I will try to say how I see it.
You did know that the flashlight will look shitty and it can't be done better. And still decided to do it. Now you use that as an excuse and ask me how to improve it. Just great.
Remove the flashlight. It will make mod better. And sorry for my crappy feedback. It will never happen again, really.
no. You don't get it. Look, I know it's the BEST it can be done in zdoom so have settled for that. I want a flashlight in zdoom. So i made it happen. It's not the greatest but meh it works. I know that is currently the only way to make it work in zdoom and it seems everyone else is agreed. Pointing out its flaws serves nothing. Its not constructive is what I'm saying.

The only problem i have is people second guessing every decision i made in this mod And then getting the Ike with me for not bending over backwards to please them. this is the last time i will say this. You have an opinion about the mod. Well fine. I have one too. We don't have to agree you know... :roll:
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby Doomenator » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:28 am

Well then don't be surprised and perturbed. And especially don't ask how to do better. Will be prudent to ignore your mods at all. For me in the first place is aesthetics and functionality of certain things, and not the fact of presence.
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby Slax » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:40 pm

WELP. Project's dead. Lock thread?
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby VladTopol1706 » Sun May 21, 2017 7:38 pm

I downloaded the mod and i liked very much.
You could instead be a ZDoom mod you could make it a QZDoom mod if you like software mod but with lights
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby Major Cooke » Sun May 21, 2017 10:21 pm

This might be super late to the party...

osjclatchford wrote:my god you're all still going on about this?

osjclatchford wrote:Just WOW!
I'm gone for a couple of days and this is the response?
What a pinikity, whiney lot you are eh?
Seriously, the level of negativity here astounds me. :shock:


It's posts like these that are going to bring karma down a lot harder on you if you continue responding like this.

Instead of becoming all exasperated over it, you could just say, "Hey, thanks for the feedback, but..." and do a nice reply back.
Or another alternative, you could also simply not respond to it. The way I see it, you almost view this as trolling.
People would be a lot warmer, and would respect your opinion a lot better, and not cold shoulder you like:
DBThanatos wrote:Ok. Im done with you.
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby osjclatchford » Mon May 22, 2017 5:24 am

Yeah I guess so. Guess I'm just oversensitive these days or something. I just read over all this today and reading it now I just come off like an absolute paranoid nutter. Its totally coloured the mod with an even worse name now...I'm not gonna bore you all any further with such insanity by explaining my sudden lack of vision as far as reality is concerned. I'm just gonna say. Put it all behind us and forget it I suppose. I have been doing more to this this past few days and was considering re opening the project for further development but feel a bit embarrassed to do so considering all that has been said...

*edit*
Fuck It I've re-opened it. if It gets ignored or my prior ridiculous outbursts have prejudiced you're decision to follow it or not then so be it. all I can say is yes I guess am a bit of a punk... :roll:
and yes. I have taken on some of the aforementioned suggestions. you know what? it is better now. and I'l be the first to admit I was wrong on a lot of these things. wood for the trees and all that eh? link on front page as usual...
Spoiler:
Last edited by osjclatchford on Mon May 22, 2017 6:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby SoundOfDarkness » Mon May 22, 2017 6:11 am

Don't give up.
This may be a strange comparison but I think creating a mod is kinda like cooking a meal. First and foremost YOU have to like it. If there are people saying "this sucks" you can choose to listen why they think so or choose to not give a fuck. If you think about their reasoning and decide you still prefer it the way you made it then that's just fine. If they point out errors you can still think about if you care or not.
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Re: OSJCLatchford's DooM - Major Crisis

Postby osjclatchford » Mon May 22, 2017 6:15 am

SoundOfDarkness wrote:Don't give up.
This may be a strange comparison but I think creating a mod is kinda like cooking a meal. First and foremost YOU have to like it. If there are people saying "this sucks" you can choose to listen why they think so or choose to not give a fuck. If you think about their reasoning and decide you still prefer it the way you made it then that's just fine. If they point out errors you can still think about if you care or not.


evrything you just said is spot on. I should have just reeled my neck in. thanks.
why I bothered to go on the way I did I don't know. :oops:
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