Developer issues discussion (GZDB split)

Please do not mimic the behavior of the posts shown here.

Moderator: GZDoom Developers

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Major Cooke » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:00 pm

Long story short, if MaxED is being serious -- and I don't have any reason to doubt this -- someone else is going to have to take up the mantle of developing it now if you want it back.

Good luck and God speed.
User avatar
Major Cooke
Do unto others as you would have unto you. Judge yourself first.
 
Joined: 28 Jan 2007

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Rachael » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:15 pm

I think a lot of people have forgotten that MaxED was doing all this work with no compensation. True, the texture browser may have been an unpopular change, but at least once did he request someone do a pull request to change it back.
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby ZZYZX » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:27 pm

1) there is a pull request,
2) would be nice to know for sure if MaxED is serious or not. I could add/update certain critical features, but only if I'm sure that its not going to be done by him. ZScript support, for example.
User avatar
ZZYZX
le chat du rabbin
 
 
 
Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Location: Ukraine

Developer issues discussion (GZDB split)

Postby Kinsie » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:01 pm

Major Cooke wrote:Long story short, if MaxED is being serious -- and I don't have any reason to doubt this -- someone else is going to have to take up the mantle of developing it now if you want it back.

Good luck and God speed.

ZZYZX wrote:2) would be nice to know for sure if MaxED is serious or not. I could add/update certain critical features, but only if I'm sure that its not going to be done by him. ZScript support, for example.
I suspect he'll be back sooner rather than later... he'll run into issues - either with grappling with Ken Silverman's DOS-era teenage programming, or with the... shall we say... opinionated personalities that currently maintain the primary source port and editor fork for that game - that'll make our Win32-era code and mild disagreements seem comparatively pleasant.
User avatar
Kinsie
A Concept Utterly Obsolete
 
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Location: MAP33
Discord: Find Me...
Twitch ID: thekinsie

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby ZZYZX » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:10 am

To be honest all that has to be done for more user friendly Duke mapping is implementing proper user interface in mapster32. Either using Qt (I love Qt!) or actually writing the UI from scratch. Qt is preferable :)
The hardest part would be implementing custom canvas for running the build engine (i.e. run it inside another window).
User avatar
ZZYZX
le chat du rabbin
 
 
 
Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Location: Ukraine

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Major Cooke » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:54 am

Kinsie wrote:I suspect he'll be back sooner rather than later... he'll run into issues - either with grappling with Ken Silverman's DOS-era teenage programming, or with the... shall we say... opinionated personalities that currently maintain the primary source port and editor fork for that game - that'll make our Win32-era code and mild disagreements seem comparatively pleasant.


Agreed. All that old stuff, just... ugh. Can't think about it without getting a nasty shiver going through my body. The blood voxel editor comes to mind in particular...
User avatar
Major Cooke
Do unto others as you would have unto you. Judge yourself first.
 
Joined: 28 Jan 2007

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Ozymandias81 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:32 pm

@MaxED
Just for curiosity: today I have lost 3 hours in order to find an issue with a script... but I was totally wrong: it was a Dialogue problem, where I had just a missed branch.. Ugh!
Could be possible to add a syntax checker or whatever is called for DIALOGUE lumps? Something that could give you at least clues after you compile a map script... this would be extremely appreciated, if possible.

Thanks in advance,

OZY
User avatar
Ozymandias81
Doom is a State of Mind... Out of Control.
 
Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Location: Mount Olympus, Mars
Github ID: Ozymandias81
Operating System: Windows Vista/7 64-bit
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Modern GZDoom)

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Gez » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:07 pm

Normally there is such a thing in GZDoom, so just look at the errors and warnings?
Gez
 
 
 
Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Ozymandias81 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:32 pm

Unfortunately doesn't happen anything even in GZDoom if there is just a missed branch, that's why I wasn't able to notice it :(
User avatar
Ozymandias81
Doom is a State of Mind... Out of Control.
 
Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Location: Mount Olympus, Mars
Github ID: Ozymandias81
Operating System: Windows Vista/7 64-bit
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Modern GZDoom)

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby TerminusEst13 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Eruanna wrote:I think a lot of people have forgotten that MaxED was doing all this work with no compensation.


I really don't see what this has to do with anything at all, considering all of us are doing work in this community for no compensation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
TerminusEst13
I'm just a guy.
 
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Twitch ID: TerminusEst13

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Rachael » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:24 pm

Because it's so easy to take something for granted until someone decides to up and leave because it isn't worth the hassle.

Look - I know the texture browser thing wasn't that great but at that point at least the program was still being maintained. :P Simple as that.

That being said - MaxED may have been on his way out anyway and that just broke the last straw, but still...
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Caligari87 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:32 pm

Unfortunately I think being so helpful early on ultimately shot MaxED in the foot. New features and bugfixes were so fast they became expected, and when that met up with feature freezes, split camps on UI design, or other things he wasn't willing to do (for whatever reason), it caused a lot of self-perpetuating backlash because it was a harsh deviation from the "normal" development pattern.

I've kinda thought for a while that GZDB's development model was unsustainable. If he really is dropping it (and not just taking a breather), hopefully either someone else can keep it maintained or perhaps SLADE will grow to fill the inevitable gap.

8-)
User avatar
Caligari87
I'm just here for the community
User Accounts Assistant
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Discord: Caligari87#3089

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby Kappes Buur » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:02 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote: I really don't see what this has to do with anything at all,

If that is the case you have a lot of growing up to do.
Any further comments about your attitude I will keep to myself.


TerminusEst13 wrote: considering all of us are doing work in this community for no compensation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's called a hobby.
MaxED and so many other programmers are providing you with tools to pursue your hobby , for free.
Without those tools you would be up Schitt's Creek without the proverbial paddles.

For my part I am grateful to all of them spending time and effort to make my hobby ever more enjoyable.
User avatar
Kappes Buur
 
 
 
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Location: British Columbia Canada

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby wildweasel » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:23 pm

However harsh you might have put that, Kappes, I think you might have just repeated Term's point back at him. =/
User avatar
wildweasel
change o' pace.
Moderator Team Lead
 
Joined: 15 Jul 2003

Re: GZDoom Builder 2.3

Postby ZZYZX » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:23 pm

GZDB being a hobby project does not mean we can't comment it or request features. This does mean however that we can't DEMAND features as we can't provide anything in return, but don't be like "stfu and praise maxed for at least doing something".

Also, the rather emotional behavior observable here (by MaxED and his last post above) is quite wrong.
In such a situation I'd personally at least warn everyone if I'm seriously going to stop working on some project.
Good example of this is that large portals commit, where I directly said that it's being on hold and whoever wants to maintain it can continue. In the end, Graf did.
User avatar
ZZYZX
le chat du rabbin
 
 
 
Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Location: Ukraine

PreviousNext

Return to Hall of Unpleasantness

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests