D4D - Announcement in 1st post (Jan 4th 2017)

[patrik]

It is nice of you of that you altered gauss canon shots and other effects for us zdoom users, but I would be very grateful if you could also add smoke toggle in D4D Options. On weaker machines they can be real performance killers.
Oh and disabling voxels in options doesnt get saved after quitting game.

[DevilBlackDeath]

I found nothing in the poll that suited my thoughts, so I will post it instead My only gripe in term of power with the fully upgraded SSG is double double trouble trouble ! Doesn't feel quite NuDoom-ish IMHO. Other than that it's really fine.

[DoomKrakken]

I chose "make the double trouble fire only one shell worth of power and ammo, instead of two". However, I tried looking through the code here, but it's confusing to weave through...

If the "double trouble" firing mode doesn't already fire only one shell worth of power and ammo, then what does it fire? Are you implying that it essentially become a quad-shotgun?

Also, if I may, I also move to take away the dual SSGs (Double Double Trouble Trouble). That's way too powerful... not to mention it horrendously ruins the Doom feel for me.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Out of curiosity, has anyone here been able to beat any of the vanilla mapsets on Ultra-Nightmare without dying once?

[Gorec]

well i played ancient aliens on ultra violence without dying

[tsukiyomaru0]

I'd say that balance should be optional, but reward more credits. A balance option that could make the normal Shotgun more useful is to add a cheap upgrade that narrows its spread.

[DBThanatos]

Thanks to everyone for the voting! I shall be uploading a patch with this and other changes soonish. Not sure when, tahis requires a bit of testing.

I chose "make the double trouble fire only one shell worth of power and ammo, instead of two". However, I tried looking through the code here, but it's confusing to weave through...

If the "double trouble" firing mode doesn't already fire only one shell worth of power and ammo, then what does it fire? Are you implying that it essentially become a quad-shotgun?

Also, if I may, I also move to take away the dual SSGs (Double Double Trouble Trouble). That's way too powerful... not to mention it horrendously ruins the Doom feel for me.

Tesm that's wat it did. Double trouble, even in doom4, it allowed you to shoot the SSG twice. Not "one barrel at the time" using one shell and half the damage of the SSG shot, but literally a FULL ssg shot. IMO, that was insane in D4 since it also cost only 1 shell. In D4D we made it use 2 shells, but still, waaay too powerful.

[shotfan]

I am gone for few days and you guys are nerfing SSG now?
Anyway, since DDTT is too much for some, I voted make to simply make it crazy expensive, so only those who want it will invest in it.

Also, if I may, I also move to take away the dual SSGs (Double Double Trouble Trouble). That's way too powerful... not to mention it horrendously ruins the Doom feel for me.

Bad idea. If you do not like it, then just do not use it. Once again, optional=unharmful. This is not a multiplayer game, so balance is not really a thing to consider here, only the fun factor. If you find your fun ruined by DDTT being overpowered, then do not use it. But please do not ruin the fun for others who would want to have it retained. I think that making DDTT superexpensive would strip it of overpowered status, hence my vote choice. Also - DDTT was clear from the start to be a somewhat ridiculous upgrade, and without any voices against it before the mod's release, I think it should just stay now, especially since it is one of few things unavailable in Doom 4, but present here.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

balance is not a thing to consider when you're making a mod that alters the gameplay in various ways? that's not true at all, you need to consider the fact that everything works together and nothing is too useful/useless. DDTT was too useful, since it could kill even high-tier enemies and even bosses ridiculously fast for essentially little payback. if there is a thing that makes the game incredibly easy to go through because of how powerful it is, it will be exploited, and you shouldn't overlook such things because "hey, some people find it fun to use, who cares if it's incredibly overpowered?" that's not how a game-designer should think. i am going to take full advantage of powerful exploits like DDTT because it's clearly the superior solution to a couple of the other guns in here, and that can make a lot of my arsenal not as useful in comparison. it's still going to be powerful, but it's not going to be overpowered.

[Cryomundus]

As silly as it sounds, try adding in LegendoomLite to this. It honestly makes the upgrades feel right, like you actually need them to survive rather than just going on a power trip.

[shotfan]

Different approaches to game design, it seems. I am not against superpowerful means in singleplayer games, since in my eyes it boils down to individual player's choice (like PB decided on the issue of the Derg Suit in Guncaster - do not like it, do not use it). As I see it,I replaced balance with fun in my assessment because there is no other player to balance anything against. Still though, I do not want any more OP stuff in here, that is for sure. All I really wish is the rest of MP-only weapons, but then again none of them was overpowered, more like the opposite actually.
You seem to favour a design that leaves only what is neccesary to win, which condemns DDTT for being too superior. Well then, tell me - which guns does it make obsolete?
And the most important point you left unaddressed - I endorse hefty price rise for this upgrade. Maybe 100K? Anything enough to make it viable only as endgame (endwad ) upgrade, and only if you left around half of other mods/upgrades in the store. How about that?

[ArchXeno]

I think that the upgraded reload speed for the SSG should be replace with something else, or maybe nothing at all. In my head, the shotgun has speed, accuracy, and versatility, while the SSG has superior damage. While the shotgun's upgrades increases its own versatility, the ssg's reload upgrade encroaches on the shotgun's territory of having better speed.

As for DDTT, bumping up the price should be enough, the upgrade would fully shine in the finale of a slaughterwad.

[sidav]

Please, don't touch the super shotgun! Nerfing it will make it useless, not balanced.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

the glare from Cacodemon attacks are really annoying, in my opinion. it covers a huge portion of your screen and takes some time to get rid of. it's jarring since none of the other enemies have this powerful an attack.

if you don't have freelook enabled, the cursor in the upgrade menu is restricted to horizontal movement only. this means you can't select the upgrades for the SSG unless you turn freelook on.

this might just be me, but i'm incredibly annoyed that the Lighting Gun comes before the Plasma Rifle in the weapon-selection order, when the Static Rifle comes after the Gauss Cannon, which i'd prefer that the Lightning Gun did.

the chaingun special mode is still bugged, but in a more... devious manner. put simply, it works correctly until you get hit. then, it seems to outright refuse to spin like it should, which means you can pretty much full-auto everything to death, drinking the demons' delicious tears. also, i noticed if you get hit when holding the chaingun, your screen can tilt around like with the special mode.

in megawads with forced death exits, you lose everything except your credits, SSG upgrades and weapon mods. an oversight, or an intentional slap in the face to megawads' death exits?

Different approaches to game design, it seems. I am not against superpowerful means in singleplayer games, since in my eyes it boils down to individual player's choice (like PB decided on the issue of the Derg Suit in Guncaster - do not like it, do not use it). As I see it,I replaced balance with fun in my assessment because there is no other player to balance anything against. Still though, I do not want any more OP stuff in here, that is for sure. All I really wish is the rest of MP-only weapons, but then again none of them was overpowered, more like the opposite actually.
You seem to favour a design that leaves only what is neccesary to win, which condemns DDTT for being too superior. Well then, tell me - which guns does it make obsolete?
And the most important point you left unaddressed - I endorse hefty price rise for this upgrade. Maybe 100K? Anything enough to make it viable only as endgame (endwad ) upgrade, and only if you left around half of other mods/upgrades in the store. How about that?

DDTT is powerful, but it's not powerful enough to have a stupidly high price-tag on it. i can't think of anything that'd require such a ridiculous amount of cash to spend on it, unless it was something obscene like a BFG ammo-drop upgrade.

since the SSG is an essential part of your arsenal in Doom, yes, you should consider the balance of what gun replaces the SSG slot, and D4D's SSG is essentially the same but much better. maybe it doesn't render other guns obsolete per se, but you're bound to find a ton more uses for it as it's such a powerful gun, that you probably will neglect using other guns like the rocket launcher (deals far more damage than it), Plasma Rifle (way more reliable crowd-control), and even the original shotgun due to the abundance of shells, as it deals a crapton of damage and doesn't leave you vulnerable as you can just alternate between both guns

IIRC, Guncaster is a mod which makes your character fairly overpowered, right? D4D does do that here, but it amps up the enemies a lot too, so you're certainly strong enough to take them down, as they are to you. so making sure all the guns are balanced enough with each other is a goal that seems sensible, and makes the "don't like it, don't use it" train of thought seem very weird to me. yes, there are no upgrade runs for Doom 4, but i don't think this mod was designed with you being able to do that here at all. i mean, what other weapon in your arsenal can reliably kill arch-viles and Barons after you fully unload into them, and being able to repeat that quickly thereafter? that's some insane DPS we're talking about here.

[Major Cooke]

in megawads with forced death exits, you lose everything except your credits, SSG upgrades and weapon mods. an oversight, or an intentional slap in the face to megawads' death exits?

Slap in the face is an understatement. That's me actually pissing on them instead.
I'm responsible for that. Fuck death exits.

Spare me any excuses for them as well. This one's ears are deaf to them.

But to be fair, you lose your weapons which was the original intention. That was begrudgingly left alone.