Strife VE Support sans OpenGL Bits

[Scaled]

I'd read elsewhere that Strife VE does oddball things that (G)Zdoom would have to be rewritten to actually correctly do. So potentially sounding dumb here but, is there a way that it could at least support the map changes? That is to say not seeing a bunch of floating !'s everywhere, seeing the skybox in the Production map, the talismans existing, the widescreen hud addon bits, the strife/skull screens, and arguably most importantly the fact you can play the demo and it working correctly.

If that would be problematic I understand, but since nobody seems to be in a hurry to actually use their source code Why not offer support for the important-ish features? I've a feeling this has already been discussed and then dismissed, but this is a game i kinda like, and would like some non-steam options for using some of the improved bits.

[Graf Zahl]

The main IWAD in the VE is completely unchanged. All the additions cannot be ported due to licensing conflicts. The corresponding resources should be in a separate file (which I do not have so I couldn't do anything about it anyway.)

[Fishytza]

Well... long ago I made some sort of "SVE support PK3" which allows running SVE.wad (as a pwad) without many issues. Although, some things like the gore system, the NPC immunity, and "Capture the Chalice" are unsupported (mostly because I just wanted the single-player to work as intended and see the new factory level in ZDoom). Also, I don't think the demo maps work as intended either.

Say Graf, is it safe to post what I've done so far? Or is that a "big NO!" due to the licensing issues?

[edward850]

You cannot post commercial content that can be run standalone. Plain and simple.
(You can make a modification to Doom maps assuming Doom is still actually needed, but you can't port them over to Hexen. Yes, Strife is a separate product from SVE, as the expanded content is made by different people.)

[Fishytza]

Even if it's just reverse engineered code, IE nothing but DECORATE, ACS and MAPINFO?

[edward850]

If it's not the same data, it's irrelevant, however the important thing there is that as long as someone can't use it to play SVE without actually having/loading SVE, it's fine.

Although it's also mostly irrelevant to ZDoom, which really can't afford to have anything less than proper support.
I don't think Strife could actually handle any more kludges without becoming some sort of singularity and devouring us all.

[Fishytza]

Although it's also mostly irrelevant to ZDoom, which really can't afford to have anything less than proper support.

Right, so unless I finish everything else I shouldn't even bother posting it at all.

[Xaser]

I'm confused as to why one can't add support that requires "-file SVE.wad" to function (a la NERVE.WAD). In mainline (G)ZDoom's case it may be a "devs don't want to," but it sounds like that's what FishyClockwork is doing in PWAD form. What's the issue?

[wildweasel]

I seem to recall there are some instances of outright conflict, i.e. data lumps with entirely different formats sharing names with ZDoom-specific ones.

[Xaser]

As a quick clarification to my previous post: I'm not referring to copying code from SVE; that indeed can't be done because of licensing.

[Blzut3]

Nothing's wrong with it, Edward850 apparently felt like being an oracle. Yes you can share a patch that enables SVE.WAD to work with ZDoom. Either a shim for users to load into existing ZDoom or submitting patches to get mainline support (I don't believe the latter is what was being asked).

Even though it's out of the scope of what was being asked, what Edward850 was trying to say is no, one can't take code directly from SVE and stick it into ZDoom without getting approval from Kaiser/Quasar (they're pretty cool about licensing if it comes down to fairly trivial bits). At the same time one does need to take care that the implementation given is accurate.

The DECALDEF thing was resolved IIRC and even then it not like it would have been a huge issue to ignore or even support (the syntax is fairly similar to ZDoom's but Kaiser couldn't be bothered to make it compatible).

[Fishytza]

Hmm. Since I'm not sure if what I'm doing is a-okay or on the more dark side of gray, would a hacky combination of DECORATE and ACS, which accurately mimics the behavior of the original code, count as copying it?

Say, for instance, the ore spawner which is never supposed to spawn any ore if there are already 3 ores on the map or if it's a deathmatch game or if the ore spawner is 2048 units away from all players.

I seem to recall there are some instances of outright conflict, i.e. data lumps with entirely different formats sharing names with ZDoom-specific ones.

IIRC there is a lump in SVE.wad which used to be named DECALDEF but later got renamed to DECLDEF. Because of that, ZDoom used to give a fatal error when trying to load SVE.wad.

EDIT: Basically what Blzut3 said. *got ninja'd* -_-

Right, now a more meaningful question. Should I upload this in Projects? Since the current PK3 is rather small (6kb).
On second thought, nevermind.

[Graf Zahl]

I'm confused as to why one can't add support that requires "-file SVE.wad" to function (a la NERVE.WAD). In mainline (G)ZDoom's case it may be a "devs don't want to," but it sounds like that's what FishyClockwork is doing in PWAD form. What's the issue?

What's unclear about 'I do not have it'? Meaning I can't verify anything about it and I do not plan to rebuy a game I already own.

[edward850]

Nothing's wrong with it, Edward850 apparently felt like being an oracle. Yes you can share a patch that enables SVE.WAD to work with ZDoom. Either a shim for users to load into existing ZDoom or submitting patches to get mainline support (I don't believe the latter is what was being asked).

Even though it's out of the scope of what was being asked, what Edward850 was trying to say is no, one can't take code directly from SVE and stick it into ZDoom without getting approval from Kaiser/Quasar (they're pretty cool about licensing if it comes down to fairly trivial bits). At the same time one does need to take care that the implementation given is accurate.

Both of these statements had nothing to do with what I was talking about, as FishyClockwork seemed to be suggesting just taking the SVE PWAD and modifying it, rather than making a patch or extension for it. You know, the usual "Don't upload a modified Doom2 IWAD" rule.

[Fishytza]

FishyClockwork seemed to be suggesting just taking the SVE PWAD and modifying it, rather than making a patch or extension for it

O_o
Either I need to word my sentences differently or... well I don't understand how you got that idea from:

long ago I made some sort of "SVE support PK3" which allows running SVE.wad (as a pwad) without many issues.

The "support PK3" (which is just code) is supposed to be run alongside SVE.wad, with STRIFE1.wad being the iwad, of course.

If you got confused by this:

Also, I don't think the demo maps work as intended either.

By that I mean you don't hear the NPCs' voices (eg. Harris) when talking to them.
And Blackbird's radio chatter is played wrong, eg. when coming out of the tavern after confronting Harris you hear the same speech that you get when Rowan gives you the comm link in the full game.