Hell's Vanquisher WIP

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piexil
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Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by piexil »

I like the idea behind doom. I mean, who doesn't like the sound of someone going into hell and beating the crap out of every demon he sees? So i took that idea, and started to make a Map pack out of it. It's more generic doom than zdoomb ut does use some zdoom things (ACS).

"Story"
Spoiler:
Progress:
Spoiler:
Screnshots:
Spoiler:
Thanks to:
Spoiler:
Download:
MAP01 (NOTHING INCLUDED):https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwxecztisms7wzu/MAP01.wad
MAP01 (EVERYTHING INCLUDED) https://www.dropbox.com/s/0znmjws9yn0sd30/MAP01.zip (Loaded Brutal doom last or you will get some rendering errors)
Endless123
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by Endless123 »

Good map fun to play :)
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piexil
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by piexil »

Endless123 wrote:Good map fun to play :)
Thank you, man! your predator mod is awesome!
Endless123
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by Endless123 »

Thanks :)

So in conclusion we are both satisfied customers :lol:
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Jimmy
 
 
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by Jimmy »

Not sure about the full download thing. (1) 237 MB is insane for a one-map wad that takes a few minutes to beat, and (2) Hope you got permission to distribute all those WADs.

Here are my thoughts on the actual map: It looks cool, I like the overall texture theme, and it definitely serves well as map01 of a megawad, if that's what you have planned. :)

Just be very careful of monster placement. The imp in the first room is stuck in a torch and there's a stealth shotgunner on the curvy staircase stuck in the wall. Bear in mind that Doom's actors are actually square in shape, and so can't really align against angled walls, as Doom Builder's "circular things" default setting might have you believe.

The ending "cutscene" doesn't work that well. For one, you can skip right over the hole, so I'd make it cover the whole far end of the room rather than leaving those bits of floor there against the rearmost wall. It's also extremely brief and virtually pointless, all it is is the camera changing to show Doomguy falling down the hole. It's not all that cinematic and could probably be removed.

Here's a general tip for map design: try to introduce a sense of non-linearity. Making areas more accessible adds to the exploration factor. Hence, I'd suggest making the red door openable at the map start, and simply place some red bars behind it, in front of the gargface switch. This way, the player can visit the area, go "hmm" and then will have to remember to come back later. Admittedly for a small map like this, the difference to the gameplay is negotiable, but it's a good habit to get into.

Also, is there a music track in the full download? I didn't download that because, er, 237MB.
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piexil
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by piexil »

Jimmy wrote:Not sure about the full download thing. (1) 237 MB is insane for a one-map wad that takes a few minutes to beat, and (2) Hope you got permission to distribute all those WADs.



Also, is there a music track in the full download? I didn't download that because, er, 237MB.
Yes, there was an metal music pack included that has redone music from doom. I think it sounds great. The reason for the large amount is just, I wanted people to have everything that I run the map with. Because of the large size, I also have just the map.

Also, the plan is to be a a map pack (albeit, maybe not a megawad)
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Mikk-
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by Mikk- »

How about instead of lumping 237MB worth of crap into your maps, you post several links to the stuff you loaded alongside it - it's stupid for one map to be loaded with all of the other junk, it's going to put people off - especially those with weak internet connections. Also it's not necessary to repackage several other mods made by other people.

Looking at the map so far, it's definitely a start, a bit short, but for the first map of a megawad that's to be expected.
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by Endless123 »

Mikk- wrote:How about instead of lumping 237MB worth of crap into your maps, you post several links to the stuff you loaded alongside it - it's stupid for one map to be loaded with all of the other junk, it's going to put people off - especially those with weak internet connections. Also it's not necessary to repackage several other mods made by other people.
That was is a bit harsh don't you think? He simply included Brutal Doom and some other stuff so the player would have the optimum experience to enjoy his map. I don't see what's wrong with that. And he did give the choice to download the map alone or the full pack. It's not like he stole someone else mod and claimed it as his own.
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Mikk-
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by Mikk- »

I never said he did that though - I know he posted a version without the fluff, it's still kind of unnecessary to include mods packaged with a 115kb map. Like I said though, the map it self isn't too bad, stealth monsters are a pain and shotgunners silently teleporting in after flicking the first switch is slightly unfair but that's just my opinion
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by Onslaught Six »

Deliberately played vanilla (with the exception of Eternal Doom HUD and Stomper weapon sprites) to prove that it's not necessary to dress everything up ridiculously and use a bunch of other people's mods to make your map fun. You might enjoy playing the map that way and that's great, but the rest of us might have our own preferences. (In particular, big-ass music WADs are frowned upon, mostly because music taste is VERY subjective. I, for one, can barely stand any of the default Doom/Doom2 tracks anymore; I have to play with prjdoom.wad, which is still MIDI but makes every song not suck.)

Stealth monsters are not particularly fun to fight in this amount. Use them sparingly in a WAD; IMO they should only be used in darker areas where you might otherwise find a Spectre, and even then they should be kept to a minimum.

Image
This guy is stuck in the torch. Move him out a little bit so he can actually wake up and attack the player.

I would hold off on the cacos until Map02, just because they kind of come out of nowhere.

I don't like how the shotgun guys just "appear," especially when you just hit the first switch. If you're insistent on them teleporting, you should make sure they actually visibly teleport in and make the teleport noise; AND it should be at the same time the door opens, not once you press just one of the switches. Thinking back now, I'll bet every time you tested it, you pressed the left switch first, right? I always pressed the right switch. Account for this kind of thing.
If I were doing this level, I would just put the Shotgun guys behind the door, and let them attack the player when it opens.

Not immediately fond of the Quake-like "multiple switches for one door" thing, but I never was, so if you're going to do that, all I can say is to keep it more to a minimum. The entire level is a weird switchhunt into little corridors and I'm not always immediately aware of what I'm doing or where I'm supposed to be going. This is a beginner problem; some of my early maps had this issue too. If you're going to do Important Plot Doors with Switches, they should at least spit out a "This Door Is Opened Elsewhere" message. Like Quake did.
I would honestly recommend working within vanilla limitations first, before starting on ACS, but that's me.

I would dress up the main door to the exit a little more, make it feel important, maybe make a long hallway leading down to it. Also, like above, I would change the way the "cutscene" and such works; it's better to just go the Doom 2 route and make the player exit the level as soon as they pass over the linedef. Players are used to that; make them feel comfortable with the familiar. (Doom players love nothing if not familiar.)

Not a fan of the way you used COMPBLUE to border a blue key door, that always throws me off when people do that, especially because COMPBLUE doesn't always look right from a distance with certain colour maps.

Other than that, I can't complain much, and most of these are nitpicky. It's a great first map for a megawad and it has a lot of potential; I just hope the rest of it gets better and avoids annoying problems. (The stealth monsters really are an issue.)
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piexil
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Re: Hell's Vanquisher WIP

Post by piexil »

Onslaught Six wrote: I don't like how the shotgun guys just "appear," especially when you just hit the first switch. If you're insistent on them teleporting, you should make sure they actually visibly teleport in and make the teleport noise; AND it should be at the same time the door opens, not once you press just one of the switches. Thinking back now, I'll bet every time you tested it, you pressed the left switch first, right? I always pressed the right switch. Account for this kind of thing.
If I were doing this level, I would just put the Shotgun guys behind the door, and let them attack the player when it opens.
)
1.
I think that may just be a problem with the ACS. The ACS,I actually enjoy a lot and it's fairly second nature, because I'm fairly proficient in Java.
2.
The strange thing about the stuck IMP is that, it's not stuck when you run it with Brutal Doom so thanks for that, I would have probably never noticed.
3.
Thanks foir the "Door is opened elsewhere" thing, The map overall does need some more polish, and after I finish MAP02, I'm going back and polishing it up, probably get rid of some of the stealth monsters as the level is actually kind of hard IMHO.
4.
Gonna comment ont he whole Vanilla/Brutal-Doom thing. I'm buiolding the map with all those resources loaded (so I laod brutal doom, etc into doombuilder to run at launch time). So, I provided the stuff I use for an "optimum expirence", however, it is completely playable in vanilla or your choice of mods. Next map, I'll have one that is just the map, the map and brutal + the hud + textures and finally I'll have a link to the music wad I'm using, as a recommended wad. Hopefully that should solve all issues, I don't want to start a flame war or anything. (And also severely reduce the size).


Thanks again for the suggestions and criticisms! :D
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