DoomRL Arsenal - [1.1.5] [MP-B7.3]

[Yholl]

And, how about making N! mancubi work like the actual doom RL mancubi and make them fire 3 shots that have splash damage?

I considered it, but HOLY ROCKETEERING BATMAN that would be so utterly horrifying to fight. That's like, coded-by-a-bastard boss tier fighting style right there, on a basic enemy. Plus, it has two guns, and my brain refuses to let it fire from guns it doesn't actually have.

Harmless, non-solid illusions could be fun (read: horrible). Maybe make them sliiiiiightly more transparent or something. I'm assuming you definitely do not want to just make them +STEALTH.

The Cybernetic Spectre, The Mechtre, will be fairly similar to +STEALTH, only without being obnoxious and stupid. Can hear his footsteps, occaisonally his cloak shorts out with a zapping sound, damaging him disables it permanently.

Just for the record, that was a line from Terminator, which is the first thing that came to mind when I pictured a robotic Revenant.

Hehe, I know.
To be specific, the Cybernetic versions of enemies that are already Cybernetic (i.e. Revenants, Mancubi) are simply different or upgraded versions. They aren't super robots or anything.

[Hetdegon]

Fun mod, been playing a few runs on OBLIGE maps (with self-imposed permadeath), which is as authentic as you can get trying to do a Doom RL.
Overall I am pretty satisfied, although I managed to get a few pet peeves over time. Keep in mind that is merely feedback and not intending to put it down or anything.
1) Non-super shotguns feel strangely underpowered. The best seems to be, ironically, the original-style pump shotgun. They don't pack much extra punch, and the ammo capacity is way too tight to perform properly. Turning them into assemblies limits them even further for not all that much noticeable gain.
This might be because I am using the monster pack, but still, they feel really weak and limited. I'd suggest giving at least one more shell capacity to the auto shotguns by default. That clip size works much better on the RL than in actual Doom.
2) All characters apparently enjoy lv.2 in whizkid, but it'd be nice if the technician could go the extra mile and add a third mod to assemblies, it'll probably make it as desirable as the other two classes (ammochain and sharpshooter). Even when the amount of available mods is increased with scavenger, and that is already fairly good (depending on the maps used it might be the only source of mods, but a lucky Marine/Scout might become far more powerful if mod drops are plentiful or plain luckyly convenient). That'd play well on the "tinkerer class" aspect.
3) I keep having to go back to the original post to check out the specific effects of every mod since they do more things than in the original. It'd be nice to add some hint in-game or include a readme with the wad. Of course I could just copy the text to a notepad or something, so this is a very minor nitpick.

As for the monster replacements. I like them so far. It'd be nice if a randomizer mode remains, when the monster pack becomes final and selectable using the intended skill levels. Even if just for the joy of breaking the carefully measured balance of OBLIGE level sets (and good old "oh crap" factor).

And, how about making N! mancubi work like the actual doom RL mancubi and make them fire 3 shots that have splash damage?

I considered it, but HOLY ROCKETEERING BATMAN that would be so utterly horrifying to fight. That's like, coded-by-a-bastard boss tier fighting style right there, on a basic enemy. Plus, it has two guns, and my brain refuses to let it fire from guns it doesn't actually have.

Doesn't need to be bastardly, actually. Have it fire 3 shots in sequence (2 regular spread + 1 frontal from a random cannon side after enough delay to have a 24 radius player slip in-between. Like if the projectiles have speed 8, delay the next shot by 5-6 ticks (maybe 7-8 to account for shot radius)) and have them have splash damage, but not like 80 splash damage. Something relatively small like 1d5 could be more than enough to feel the pressure and deadly in numbers. (in this case the individual damage per area would be small but consider two shots are fired at once, so that already makes 2d5 as a potential default and 3d5 if you are next to a wall). Play a bit with the damages and delays and it should definitely work.

They aren't super robots or anything.

Oww, bummer.

[VicRattlehead]

I don't know how the speed bonus that the technical mod gives to the reload speed of each weapon is calculated, but it seems almost imperceptible in most weapons outside of shotguns and rocket launchers. In particular, I would have hoped that applying technical mod packs to the Revolver would make it reload almost instantaneously, but I had to carefully listen to the reload sound and compare how long after the sound sequence ends I can start shooting the weapon with 2x technical mod packs and without to determine that there is indeed a faster reload speed with the mod packs applied.

[Marisa the Magician]

I'm going to give it a try~

[Triple S]

Fun mod, been playing a few runs on OBLIGE maps (with self-imposed permadeath), which is as authentic as you can get trying to do a Doom RL.
Overall I am pretty satisfied, although I managed to get a few pet peeves over time. Keep in mind that is merely feedback and not intending to put it down or anything.
1) Non-super shotguns feel strangely underpowered. The best seems to be, ironically, the original-style pump shotgun. They don't pack much extra punch, and the ammo capacity is way too tight to perform properly. Turning them into assemblies limits them even further for not all that much noticeable gain.
This might be because I am using the monster pack, but still, they feel really weak and limited. I'd suggest giving at least one more shell capacity to the auto shotguns by default. That clip size works much better on the RL than in actual Doom.
2) All characters apparently enjoy lv.2 in whizkid, but it'd be nice if the technician could go the extra mile and add a third mod to assemblies, it'll probably make it as desirable as the other two classes (ammochain and sharpshooter). Even when the amount of available mods is increased with scavenger, and that is already fairly good (depending on the maps used it might be the only source of mods, but a lucky Marine/Scout might become far more powerful if mod drops are plentiful or plain luckyly convenient). That'd play well on the "tinkerer class" aspect.
3) I keep having to go back to the original post to check out the specific effects of every mod since they do more things than in the original. It'd be nice to add some hint in-game or include a readme with the wad. Of course I could just copy the text to a notepad or something, so this is a very minor nitpick.

1) I'd have to disagree here. The single shotguns are all pretty useful in their own right, being both fast and accurate. They are a little weak compared to the doubles, yeah, but that's kind of how it is. Of course, it depends on the map for sure... Oblige maps tend to involve somewhat open areas and large amounts of monsters, and in those situations I'd agree that you can't really depend on the single shotguns due to not being strong enough for the breaks in firing time you'll experience. Those situations mean you need to keep firing, keep painlocking, keep killing, and definitely keep dodging projectiles... and stopping to reload every six shots isn't going to help you. Mods help there though, more than you seem to think - a Plasmatic Shrapnel Combat Shotgun with some extra mods of choice can do a pretty awesome job of clearing large mobs of weaker enemies from afar.

I'd prefer an explosive or rapid-fire weapon in those situations, but hey.

Point is, the weapons are balanced for situational use. Play to their strengths and you'll see when to use each. My favorite use of the Combat Shotgun has been to painlock dangerous threats as I retreat to safety, then either snipe them with the Combat Shotgun as they approach or switch weapons to something better for long-range (depends on what I have).

2) Technician is all about modding and Scavenger. Scavenger allows him to get powerful assemblies and modded weapons very quickly, he has the ability to see an assembly for whatever weapon he has in his hands when he nabs a map, and his chances of finding awesome things inside of supply crates is much higher than that of the other classes. Scout and Marine are far more proficient with their weapon types of choice, but Technician will have the best gear first almost every time, and he'll have something powerful for every situation.

Oh, and he can carry eight mods at a time, which is pretty useful.

3) I can agree here, though I've memorized the mod effects. A replacement for the F1 help screen would be nice.

[wildweasel]

I wonder, is there any chance of a fifth playerclass that specializes in shotguns? DoomRL itself had a handful of perks for shotguns; one of them would cause shotguns to automatically reload when the player moves, but since that's already inherent in the way Doom works, I don't know what kind of buff could be given to shotguns that would work in a real-time environment aside from perhaps making all shotguns automatically behave as if they have one (or more?) Technical mods applied to them.

I bring this up because, in a lot of my playthroughs, shotguns get pretty neglected unless I'm out of ammo for whatever weapon my class specializes in. Technician doesn't seem to have this problem, because he's not classed for any specific make of weapon, but it does feel like shotguns don't quite get where the rapid-fires and pistols get with Marine and Scout.

[Triple S]

I wonder, is there any chance of a fifth playerclass that specializes in shotguns? DoomRL itself had a handful of perks for shotguns; one of them would cause shotguns to automatically reload when the player moves, but since that's already inherent in the way Doom works, I don't know what kind of buff could be given to shotguns that would work in a real-time environment aside from perhaps making all shotguns automatically behave as if they have one (or more?) Technical mods applied to them.

I bring this up because, in a lot of my playthroughs, shotguns get pretty neglected unless I'm out of ammo for whatever weapon my class specializes in. Technician doesn't seem to have this problem, because he's not classed for any specific make of weapon, but it does feel like shotguns don't quite get where the rapid-fires and pistols get with Marine and Scout.

Fun fact: The two Autoshotgun assemblies and the Jackhammer benefit beautifully from Ammochain. Otherwise I kinda agree, though who knows what benefits could be given. All shotguns pierce at least one enemy?

[Slax]

Increased close range damage + TOUGH GUY, HNNNNNRRRRGH

[Triple S]

Increased close range damage + TOUGH GUY, HNNNNNRRRRGH

It'd be neat, but the Firestorm mod is slated to do that in the next update. Trying to find something unique, too... Scout gets a damage buff with his weapons and speed, Marine consumes less ammo with his weapons and keeps powerups longer, Technician can more easily mod all weapons and obtain powerful uniques, exotics, and legendaries... Maybe Shotgun Guy takes less damage overall along with whatever other benefit he gets (which I personally would prefer to be something other than a straight damage buff, but lord knows what)?

[Tapwave]

I wonder, is there any chance of a fifth playerclass

I just realized normal doomguy is also a class.

...How is he useful, though?

[Hetdegon]

1) I'd have to disagree here. The single shotguns are all pretty useful in their own right, being both fast and accurate. They are a little weak compared to the doubles, yeah, but that's kind of how it is. Of course, it depends on the map for sure... Oblige maps tend to involve somewhat open areas and large amounts of monsters, and in those situations I'd agree that you can't really depend on the single shotguns due to not being strong enough for the breaks in firing time you'll experience. Those situations mean you need to keep firing, keep painlocking, keep killing, and definitely keep dodging projectiles... and stopping to reload every six shots isn't going to help you. Mods help there though, more than you seem to think - a Plasmatic Shrapnel Combat Shotgun with some extra mods of choice can do a pretty awesome job of clearing large mobs of weaker enemies from afar.

I'd prefer an explosive or rapid-fire weapon in those situations, but hey.

Point is, the weapons are balanced for situational use. Play to their strengths and you'll see when to use each. My favorite use of the Combat Shotgun has been to painlock dangerous threats as I retreat to safety, then either snipe them with the Combat Shotgun as they approach or switch weapons to something better for long-range (depends on what I have).

2) Technician is all about modding and Scavenger. Scavenger allows him to get powerful assemblies and modded weapons very quickly, he has the ability to see an assembly for whatever weapon he has in his hands when he nabs a map, and his chances of finding awesome things inside of supply crates is much higher than that of the other classes. Scout and Marine are far more proficient with their weapon types of choice, but Technician will have the best gear first almost every time, and he'll have something powerful for every situation.

Oh, and he can carry eight mods at a time, which is pretty useful.

3) I can agree here, though I've memorized the mod effects. A replacement for the F1 help screen would be nice.

I see. I guess I can agree about the technician, but something about the single shotguns still feels underwhelming. Perhaps a larger clip size would help, as suggested. I don't think it's their raw power output what feels off. The combat shotgun should feel better than the regular, is what I am trying to say. And right now I consider the regular to be much better than the combat and tactical ones, which feels off.

[Tapwave]

Ooooh, i found a nastie.

Marine class + Jackhammer + Firestorm mod.
Suddently, jackhammer stops using ammo and just becomes the best gun ever.

[Triple S]

Ooooh, i found a nastie.

Marine class + Jackhammer + Firestorm mod.
Suddently, jackhammer stops using ammo and just becomes the best gun ever.

I noticed that, but for some reason I thought it was intended and said nothing. xD

[Yholl]

WAAALLL O' TEXXXT

1) Non-super shotguns feel strangely underpowered. The best seems to be, ironically, the original-style pump shotgun. They don't pack much extra punch, and the ammo capacity is way too tight to perform properly. Turning them into assemblies limits them even further for not all that much noticeable gain.

Double Shotgun is simply two shotguns, with high spread. 14 pellets, so yeah, it's much weaker than it's vanilla counterpart. The Exotic Super Shotgun is 20, as is the Assembly Heavy Double Shotgun, so get them if you want vanilla shootgooning.

2) All characters apparently enjoy lv.2 in whizkid, but it'd be nice if the technician could go the extra mile and add a third mod to assemblies, it'll probably make it as desirable as the other two classes (ammochain and sharpshooter).

There's no way I'll increase the applied mod limit up from 4, it's already crazy complicated. Technician is super desirable actually, I think he's actually the most played class, from the various images and words people have shown me.

3) I keep having to go back to the original post to check out the specific effects of every mod since they do more things than in the original. It'd be nice to add some hint in-game or include a readme with the wad.

Yeah, I want to turn the F1 screen into a thing displaying that. But, you know, that's a graphics thing. I just code-monkey.

As for the monster replacements. I like them so far. It'd be nice if a randomizer mode remains, when the monster pack becomes final and selectable using the intended skill levels. Even if just for the joy of breaking the carefully measured balance of OBLIGE level sets (and good old "oh crap" factor).

The Nightmare and Cybernetic variants randomly spawn on Hurt Me Plenty and Ultra-Violence.

I don't know how the speed bonus that the technical mod gives to the reload speed of each weapon is calculated, but it seems almost imperceptible in most weapons outside of shotguns and rocket launchers. In particular, I would have hoped that applying technical mod packs to the Revolver would make it reload almost instantaneously, but I had to carefully listen to the reload sound and compare how long after the sound sequence ends I can start shooting the weapon with 2x technical mod packs and without to determine that there is indeed a faster reload speed with the mod packs applied.

It decreases the reload in and reload out speeds by 3 tics each, for 6 tics total.

I'm going to give it a try~

I can agree here, though I've memorized the mod effects. A replacement for the F1 help screen would be nice.

* Yholl shrugs *
Graphical graphic. Me no can do.
(Actually, probably could. I'm just lazy and don't want to.)

I wonder, is there any chance of a fifth playerclass that specializes in shotguns? DoomRL itself had a handful of perks for shotguns; one of them would cause shotguns to automatically reload when the player moves, but since that's already inherent in the way Doom works, I don't know what kind of buff could be given to shotguns that would work in a real-time environment aside from perhaps making all shotguns automatically behave as if they have one (or more?) Technical mods applied to them.

I bring this up because, in a lot of my playthroughs, shotguns get pretty neglected unless I'm out of ammo for whatever weapon my class specializes in. Technician doesn't seem to have this problem, because he's not classed for any specific make of weapon, but it does feel like shotguns don't quite get where the rapid-fires and pistols get with Marine and Scout.

I really want to, but literally none of the DoomRL shotgun traits work in normal Doom. And I can't think of anything special, either.

All shotguns pierce at least one enemy?

Impossibru with a spread weapon. Well, as far as I know.

Maybe Shotgun Guy takes less damage overall along with whatever other benefit he gets (which I personally would prefer to be something other than a straight damage buff, but lord knows what)?

The Brawler will have a 10% damage reduction. I honestly have no idea what a Shotgun class would have.

I just realized normal doomguy is also a class.
...How is he useful, though?

He doesn't have any special traits or abilities, for those that want to play without super awesome abilities affecting the way you play.

The combat shotgun should feel better than the regular, is what I am trying to say. And right now I consider the regular to be much better than the combat and tactical ones, which feels off.

The Combat Shotgun should not feel better, it's an alternative, not an upgrade. The Tactical Shotgun is much better than the regular Shotgun, though. It doesn't have the Combat Shotgun's reduced damage.

Ooooh, i found a nastie.

Marine class + Jackhammer + Firestorm mod.
Suddently, jackhammer stops using ammo and just becomes the best gun ever.

GRODDAMIT fixed.

I noticed that, but for some reason I thought it was intended and said nothing. xD

GRODDAMIT tell me when you find weapons that are so obviously beyond god-tier they must be broken.

[-Ghost-]

Maybe a shotgun class could just be a CQC class? So he'd have more pellets per shot, maybe a slight damage buff with shotties, or fire rate or something, and slower armor degrade rate?