[Closed] French translation update

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French translation update

Postby irv1n3 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:20 pm

Hi!

I've updated the French translation (which needed it).
I hope it can be included in the next version :ugeek:

Feel free to discuss, suggest or report bugs!

EDIT : v2 is now available, not a lot of change in the core translation, mainly small changes in level names.
There are now 2 files, "language_full.fr" is a complete reworking of the translation while "language_light.fr" keeps the official translation of Doom and Doom 2.
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Last edited by irv1n3 on Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: French translation update

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:13 am

Two things:

1. I don't think it's a good idea to change level names for Doom 1 because that's how they were named in the French IWAD.
2. The music names need to go or you'll get problems if some mod changes them around. They'd be taken from the English file anyway.

Before adding this I'd rather wait for someone else to review the changes.
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Re: French translation update

Postby Gez » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:15 am

Anomalie sur Phobos/Deimos -- I'd rather have seen Anomaly de Phobos/Deimos.

Not sure how pertinent the Dis -> Dité translation is. Sure, it's classic, harkening back to the translation of Dante's Divine Comedy, but AFAIK "Dis" is what's used in pop culture nowadays. Besides, the preexisting Doom and Doom II translations are official anyway; even if some of them are terrible.

For NRFTL, translations closer to the original titles would be:
La base terrestre
Les labos de souffrance
Canyon des morts (it's not "Death Canyon" or "Canyon of Death" in English)
Montagne infernale
Vivisection
Enfer sanglant
Le banquet des barons


For Plutonia, if you want to translate Caughtyard (which is a pun on Courtyard), then rather than an allusion to Cat and Mouse which will evoke Doom 64 to most people, I suggest "Pris de court". :p

Funny that TNT"s "system control" was translated as if it were "control system". Completely missed that word order is different in French and English. But this one isn't your fault.

WTF, changing "Heck"'s translation from "que diable" to "oups"? Sure it's kind of old-fashioned, but it fits a lot better.

QUITMSG29 = "Un vrai guerrier Chex(R) n'aurait pas laisser tomber si vite."; should be "n'aurait pas laissé tomber" here. Or "laisse tomber" since the accent doesn't work with the Chex font.

Though honestly I think the é -> e and œ -> oe, etc. should be handled automatically by the engine instead, if it isn't already. (If the needed glyph is not present, replace the letter.) Besides, some of your ZDoom strings do contain accents.

By the way: protip: "clé" has an alternative spelling of "clef" which does not need an accent.

HUSTR_32 = "Niveau 32: Grösse"; -- why? I mean, why? Note "Düneberg" and "Grosse" on that document. (Yes, it was an actual Nazi actually named Hans Grosse.)

Some of the strings would need better support for gender agreement in non-English languages. E.g.:
OB_KILLEDSELF = "%o s'est tué lui-même."; -- with player gender set to "female", it should be "%o s'est tuée elle-même". I guess this needs new engine-side features.
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Re: French translation update

Postby irv1n3 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:22 pm

2) You mean the music list at the end of the file?
Ok, I've deleted it (it was a leftover of the copy/paste^^).

1) Is it a big "no modification" or can we discuss the changes?
Even if I don't think we have to keep these level names at all cost (I think the translators barely played actual the game), I understand the problematic here.
So I will detail and explain my changes. With these informations, we can decide on what to do :mrgreen:

E1M2: Nuclear Plant
Official translation: Usine nucleaire
My translation: Centrale nucléaire
Why: "Usine" (factory) is never used in French with nucléaire, the proper translation of "plant" here is centrale.

E1M5: Phobos Lab, E1M8: Phobos Anomaly, E2M1: Deimos Anomaly, E2M4: Deimos Lab
Official translations: Laboratoire Phobos, Anomalie Phobos, Anomalie Deimos, Laboratoire Deimos
My translations: Laboratoire de Phobos, Anomalie sur Phobos, Anomalie sur Déimos, Laboratoire de Déimos
Why: This construction is common and natural in English, but grammatically wrong in French, which requires more linking words. Here we could shorten "Laboratoire" by "Labo" to follow the English "Lab", but the former translator's choice was "Laboratoire", and I feel it's more consistent with the other level names.

E2M5: Command Center
Official translation: Centre de controle
My translation: Centre de commandement
Why: Here it's more likely a bad copy/past, since they already use the translation "Centre de controle" for E1M4 (Command Control). Centre de commandement is the basic literal translation.

E3M1: Hell Keep
Official translation: Donjon de l'enfer
My translation: Bastion de l'enfer
Why: This one is totally subjective, Bastion sounds better than Donjon here (Italian translation uses "Bastioni", I found it nice so I change Donjon in Bastion, the two being pretty similar).

E3M5: Unholy Cathedral
Official translation: Cathedrale profane
My translation: Cathédrale impie
Why: Profane is one of the possible translation for unholy, but it simply means "which is not holy, not related to religious". Impie is also a proper translation, and it keeps the religious aspect of the cathedral, but inverse it to become impiety, blasphemy and occult. I think it's far more related to Doom.

E3M8: Dis
Official translation: Dis
My translation: Dité
Why: Dis refers to the City of Dis in the Dante's Divine Comedy. This city has been translated in "Dité" in French translations.

I have changed some names in the fourth episode, which didn't have any official translation.

MAP05: The Waste Tunnels
Official translation: Les egouts
My translation: Réseau de traitement des eaux usées
Why: Les égouts is a perfectly acceptable translation, and I think I would have picked it at the time. But now we have the level 28 of Plutonia named The Sewers, so I think it's better to avoid duplicate names.

MAP07: Dead Simple
Official translation: L'herbe de la mort
My translation: Mortellement simple
Why: I think the "why" here should be adressed to the first translation :P With "mortellement simple" we keep the pun with dead and simple.

MAP09: The Pit
Official translation: Le puits
My translation: La fosse
Why: I think it fits better the map layout. Puits is commonly used only for water well.

MAP14: The Inmost Dens
Official translation: Les antres profondes
My translation: Les bas-fonds
Why: You completely miss the urban setting of the level with the former name. Les bas-fonds keeps the lugubre and glaucous side and fits in city levels.

MAP17: Tenements
Official translation: Les immeubles
My translation: Les taudis
Why: This time, the urban setting is well mentioned but we miss the negative side. A tenement is not a simple building (immeuble) but an old and decrepit one, almost a ghetto building. Taudis is more appropriated.

MAP23: Barrels o' fun
Official translation: La grande fete
My translation: Feux d'artifice
Why: A literal translation is not possible here, so it's just another proposition. Feux d'artifice (fireworks) refers to the explosions in the map which the other name doesn't have.

MAP27: Monster Condo
Official translation: Chez les monstres
My translation: Condensé de monstres
Why: Please ignore this one :P I've misinterpreted Condo. I will try to rework on it.

MAP29: The Living End
Official translation: La limite
My translation: La fin vivante
Why: The original name The Living End is a reference to Romero's Living Dead movies. To keep a link with Romero, La fin vivante refers to La nuit des fous vivants, another movie by Romero (called The Crazies in English).

MAP32: Grosse
Official translation: Le massacre
My translation: Grösse
Why: Back to the original name. It's a Wolfenstein reference so I don't really see the point of changing it.

Thanks Gez for your suggestions!
I originally wrote this post to reply to Graf Zahl, but I will be back at you soon!
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Re: French translation update

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:12 pm

irv1n3 wrote:MAP32: Grosse
Official translation: Le massacre
My translation: Grösse
Why: Back to the original name. It's a Wolfenstein reference so I don't really see the point of changing it.



It'd still be Grosse, not Grösse because it's a name - and that name doesn't contain an ö.

But discuss as you may, the level names are official and therefore not subject for discussion, whether you like them or not.
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Re: French translation update

Postby irv1n3 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:48 pm

Gez wrote:For NRFTL, translations closer to the original titles would be:
La base terrestre
Les labos de souffrance
Canyon des morts (it's not "Death Canyon" or "Canyon of Death" in English)
Montagne infernale
Vivisection
Enfer sanglant
Le banquet des barons

For Plutonia, if you want to translate Caughtyard (which is a pun on Courtyard), then rather than an allusion to Cat and Mouse which will evoke Doom 64 to most people, I suggest "Pris de court". :p

WTF, changing "Heck"'s translation from "que diable" to "oups"? Sure it's kind of old-fashioned, but it fits a lot better.


Thanks, I will rework them.

Gez wrote:Funny that TNT"s "system control" was translated as if it were "control system". Completely missed that word order is different in French and English. But this one isn't your fault.


I don't really get it, do you suggest the name Contrôle du système ?

Gez wrote:QUITMSG29 = "Un vrai guerrier Chex(R) n'aurait pas laisser tomber si vite."; should be "n'aurait pas laissé tomber" here. Or "laisse tomber" since the accent doesn't work with the Chex font.

Though honestly I think the é -> e and œ -> oe, etc. should be handled automatically by the engine instead, if it isn't already. (If the needed glyph is not present, replace the letter.) Besides, some of your ZDoom strings do contain accents.

By the way: protip: "clé" has an alternative spelling of "clef" which does not need an accent.

Some of the strings would need better support for gender agreement in non-English languages. E.g.:
OB_KILLEDSELF = "%o s'est tué lui-même."; -- with player gender set to "female", it should be "%o s'est tuée elle-même". I guess this needs new engine-side features.


Yep, my mistake, thanks for noticing that :P
Actually, é and ö can be printed in Strife and Chex Quest, but it doesn't fit at all with the others letters (wrong color, etc).

Clé and clef were problematic for me. I used clé because it's far more used nowadays, but I don't know if it's better to switch to clef in some strings (and lose consistency) or just keep clé/cle.


Graf Zahl wrote:It'd still be Grosse, not Grösse because it's a name - and that name doesn't contain an ö.


According to the Wolfenstein wiki, it's Grösse (http://wolfenstein.wikia.com/wiki/Hans_Gr%C3%B6sse).
I think ID chooses the name Grosse for technical reason (they had to draw a new letter for ö).

Graf Zahl wrote:But discuss as you may, the level names are official and therefore not subject for discussion, whether you like them or not.


Well, even if I don't personally consider it as "official", I understand your point of view.
Can we keep at least the é accents (since Zdoom support them) or have I to reverse all changes?

Maybe I have to find a new name for Plutonia 28, I don't really like having a duplicated name.
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Re: French translation update

Postby irv1n3 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:23 pm

irv1n3 wrote:Can we keep at least the é accents (since Zdoom support them) or have I to reverse all changes?


Can I have an answer about this so I can provide an updated version :)
Thanks!
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Re: French translation update

Postby randi » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:57 pm

It should already automatically replace accented characters with unaccented versions for fonts that don't have the accents, so you can use accented characters and still have them show up in a reasonable manner. If somebody uses a custom font with full accents, they'll get them, and if they use the stock font, they'll get whatever is provided.
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Re: French translation update

Postby irv1n3 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:12 pm

Sure it should (except for œ) but here is what you can see in Strife and Chex Quest with é (and ö as well):

Spoiler:
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Re: French translation update

Postby Gez » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:15 pm

Caused by these characters being provided by ZDoom itself (in zdoom.pk3)... They're always available.

You'd get the same problem with mod using custom fonts that only replace the characters from the Doom IWAD.

I'm not sure how best to avoid this. The simplest would be a hack so as to prevent using font characters from zdoom.pk3 when the game isn't Doom (or Heretic) or when the normal characters do not come from the IWAD; but of course it'd be a hack.
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Re: French translation update

Postby Blzut3 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:13 pm

Perhaps this would be a good excuse to add game specific roots? Probably could base the names off the ini autoload section names (with same rules), but the idea is one could have a /doom and have everything inside that directory merged in only if playing Doom. My brother pointed out that it would solve most of the requests for game detection (for cross game mods) and it would be useful for cases like this. As I understand it Doomsday does something similar as well for its PK3 structure.
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Re: French translation update

Postby randi » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:24 pm

Oh geeze. Something definitely needs to be done about that. Strife looks especially bad when it goes mixing characters.
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Re: French translation update

Postby Tapwave » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:43 pm

Gez wrote:Not sure how pertinent the Dis -> Dité translation is. Sure, it's classic, harkening back to the translation of Dante's Divine Comedy, but AFAIK "Dis" is what's used in pop culture nowadays. Besides, the preexisting Doom and Doom II translations are official anyway; even if some of them are terrible.

It's Dis indeed, even in french. I have a (translated) copy of Alighieri's book and it's spelled this way.

Gez wrote:Les labos de souffrance

Honestly, this one just sounds weird. But hey, the english one is weird as well. I'd add a "la" before "souffrance".

Gez wrote:For Plutonia, if you want to translate Caughtyard (which is a pun on Courtyard), then rather than an allusion to Cat and Mouse which will evoke Doom 64 to most people, I suggest "Pris de court". :p

This one is excellent, really.

irv1n3 wrote:I don't really get it, do you suggest the name Contrôle du système ?

That'd work pretty well, IMO.

Gez wrote:OB_KILLEDSELF = "%o s'est tué lui-même."; -- with player gender set to "female", it should be "%o s'est tuée elle-même". I guess this needs new engine-side features.

Hmm, i thought there were %somethings to make a difference between he/her/it, dunno if you could potentially translate them.

If you need any proofreading, toss me a textfile via puu.sh or somesuch, I could help.

Oh, and Grosse would be the most accurate spelling, Grösse wouldn't mean anything, but Grosse would mean, well, large.
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Re: French translation update

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:53 pm

terranova wrote:
Gez wrote:Oh, and Grosse would be the most accurate spelling, Grösse wouldn't mean anything, but Grosse would mean, well, large.



Wrong. Both words have meaning in German, but the Wolfenstein character is still named 'Grosse', even though some sources get this wrong, too.
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Re: French translation update

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:47 pm

I see there's still some serious issues to worked out before merging this makes any sense. Shall we keep the submission or dump it?
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