DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby VicRattlehead » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:26 pm

I'd like it better if reloading the combat shotgun worked similar to the reload sequence of the nailshotgun in Project MSX or the pump action in Lizard Squad where one press of the reload key would only load one shell and you can hold reload to continue loading more shells. It would make the combat shotgun work more similarly to its counterpart in DoomRL too since reloading the gun in that game only loads one shell at a time.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby Yholl » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:59 pm

VicRattlehead wrote:I'd like it better if reloading the combat shotgun worked similar to the reload sequence of the nailshotgun in Project MSX or the pump action in Lizard Squad where one press of the reload key would only load one shell and you can hold reload to continue loading more shells. It would make the combat shotgun work more similarly to its counterpart in DoomRL too since reloading the gun in that game only loads one shell at a time.


Hmm, that's a really good idea actually. Let's see how badly I mangle the reload state trying to put this in. :lol:

EDIT: Done. Actually went pretty well, and I think it works much better like this too.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby Triple S » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:50 pm

Definitely been having fun with this so far. Any plans on implementing some of the alternate fire modes for the weaponry? Like the pistol's aimed shot, sacrificing firing speed for accuracy, or the chaingun's Chain Fire mode, crippling mobility in exchange for the chaingun firing progressively faster. Would help the weapons perform better before you're able to mod them, which would be a godsend in quite a few WADs.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby Yholl » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:29 pm

Triple S wrote:Definitely been having fun with this so far. Any plans on implementing some of the alternate fire modes for the weaponry? Like the pistol's aimed shot, sacrificing firing speed for accuracy, or the chaingun's Chain Fire mode, crippling mobility in exchange for the chaingun firing progressively faster. Would help the weapons perform better before you're able to mod them, which would be a godsend in quite a few WADs.


Hmm, I'm not sure. Most of these are honestly a huge amount of effort for something that doesn't honestly work that well in Doom. I'll make a little list here to talk about them.

Aimed Shot - A twice as slow, more accurate pistol shot. The Pistol is pretty piss weak in Doom, being twice as slow won't help that much, about all you'll kill with it is maybe an annoying zombieman that you could probably just run up to and noogie anyway. Plus, it would be a lot of effort to make. I might put it on most of the pistol weapons later on, if I run into a standstill with the mod or something.
Single Shot - This one I definitely want to put in, but I really need the sprites for the Double shotgun with a single shell reload before I commit to that. Luckily, that's probably something I can actually make.
Chainfire - Slowly build up firerate while being completely immobile? Even imps will make you regret standing still for too long. Also, the minigun can't actually fire faster than it does right now, so there's limitations there, too. Also, a looooot of work. Huge. Immense. Don't wanna.
Rocket Jump - I can't really limit this to firing at your feet, but it's a possibility. This'll mostly just break levels though, and confuse people if they're firing it at enemies without knowing what it does. I'm not sure on this one.
Overcharge - Hmmm. Would you really want to break your BFG just for a single more killy shot? I'll put it in if people want it, I guess.

I'm glad you're having fun with this, and thanks for the input! (For some reason I hadn't really brainstormed about the altfires yet.)
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby Triple S » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:28 pm

Well they don't have to be exactly the same as in DoomRL, but the same concept would work.

I feel the aimed shot would be good with the Scout, though... or at least give him more pistol accuracy to start with. Maybe the aimed shot would also have an extra damage bonus, not enough to make the primary fire pointless but enough to give a reason to use it, especially with Scout's increased pistol damage. I dunno, something to think about I suppose.

As for the chain fire, it wouldn't keep you from moving, but it could just slow you down. Or have even less accuracy as it winds up. It'd be situational either way, but the alt fires tend to be that way. And the BFG Overload could work like Quake 2's BFG10k for the cost of like 100+ cells, or something.

I dunno, just thinking of stuff. I'm just kinda thinking it'd be cool to be more like DoomRL in the sense that it's not just what you use, but how you use it. Many weapons would have special, situational alternate fires that add more thought to encounters, especially if the enemies get the DoomRL treatment. Of course this isn't my project (I don't have anywhere near the talent nor the knowledge, haha), so you probably have a different idea of what you're doing with the mod.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby Yholl » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:25 am

Triple S wrote:I feel the aimed shot would be good with the Scout, though... or at least give him more pistol accuracy to start with. Maybe the aimed shot would also have an extra damage bonus, not enough to make the primary fire pointless but enough to give a reason to use it, especially with Scout's increased pistol damage. I dunno, something to think about I suppose.


The Pistol and Combat Pistol now have increased accuracy, they're fairly good at long range now. They're more accurate in DoomRL anyway, so why not?

Triple S wrote:I dunno, just thinking of stuff. I'm just kinda thinking it'd be cool to be more like DoomRL in the sense that it's not just what you use, but how you use it. Many weapons would have special, situational alternate fires that add more thought to encounters, especially if the enemies get the DoomRL treatment. Of course this isn't my project (I don't have anywhere near the talent nor the knowledge, haha), so you probably have a different idea of what you're doing with the mod.


Yeah, I get what you're saying. Another issue is that if I started putting these sorts of altfires on the weapons, weapons that don't have them would seem useless or underpowered because of the lack of versatility.

I really appreciate your brainstorming, please feel free to bombard me with suggestions. One thing you could do is come up with cool ideas for unique weapons, (Hopefully something that has usable sprites.) as I'd like to have more new ones due to the fact that the DoomRL uniques require such specific sprites. I came up with the ever-so-demented Mysterious Magnum while building the mod, I'd love to incorporate some more cool ideas. :)
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby VicRattlehead » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:48 am

About the Sharpshooter perk not working properly, adding the FBF_NORANDOM flag seems to fix it.

So instead of

Code: Select allExpand view
TNT1 A 0 A_FireBullets (6, 2, -1, (15), "BulletPuff")


You have

Code: Select allExpand view
TNT1 A 0 A_FireBullets (6, 2, -1, (15), "BulletPuff",FBF_USEAMMO|FBF_NORANDOM)


I don't mod Doom much myself so I don't know what the paranthesis enclosure in the damage value is supposed to mean, nor do I know why putting FBF_NORANDOM requires that you also put FBF_USEAMMO otherwise it doesn't use ammo even though it wasn't necessary before without the FBF_NORANDOM flag.

The damage actually ends up being weaker this way because the damage you set for the pistols, which was already x3, no longer gets multiplied by 1d3.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby Yholl » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:27 pm

VicRattlehead wrote:About the Sharpshooter perk not working properly, adding the FBF_NORANDOM flag seems to fix it.


Yeah, I already fixed that for Beta 2 just yesterday, thanks. :)
Heh, this mod is so complex I'm still finding bugs in stuff I made over half a year ago. Getting them all fixed is good fun.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby twinkieman93 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:28 pm

If you don't mind people throwing ideas at you, I have two. One, make the Mysterious Magnum makes its noise when you pick it up as opposed to the generic unique noise. You know. That noise. Its noise. The one that anyone who's got the gun in FO:NV knows about.
Spoiler:
I'm the guy who told the guy who made that sprite to make the sprite, and I did so with the sole purpose of imitating that weapon in a mod he was making, so I was a bit bummed when the illustrious sound didn't make an appearance. Anyways, idea two, I had the idea that you can apply a High Power mod to a weapon that's already had one applied to it and get a Max Power mod. Even lower magazine capacity but oodles of delicious damage. Also, certain weapons that should be able to support a High Power mod according to the rules on the wiki should get them. For example, the Gatling Gun? It's not a shotgun, it certainly holds more than five rounds in the magazine, and it's got two mod slots open. Why not?
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby VicRattlehead » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:47 pm

twinkieman93 wrote:Also, certain weapons that should be able to support a High Power mod according to the rules on the wiki should get them. For example, the Gatling Gun? It's not a shotgun, it certainly holds more than five rounds in the magazine, and it's got two mod slots open. Why not?


In DoomRL, assembled weapons can only be modded once at most so it would not even be possible to come up with a Gatling Gun+PB. This mod does allow two further mod packs to be used on assembled weapons rather than just one but I think allowing the creation of one assembly on top of another would be unbalanced. In my opinion, the way it currently is now keeps basic weapons and some of the unique weapons relevant. For example, an assault shotgun would still be a desired find even if you already have a tactical shotgun (which is very easy to build early on) because an assault shotgun can be turned into a plasmatic shrapnel shotgun while a tactical shotgun cannot. You would also have to weigh the benefits between a gatling gun and a high power chaingun instead of the high power gatling gun being such an obvious choice.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby twinkieman93 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:27 pm

VicRattlehead wrote:
twinkieman93 wrote:Also, certain weapons that should be able to support a High Power mod according to the rules on the wiki should get them. For example, the Gatling Gun? It's not a shotgun, it certainly holds more than five rounds in the magazine, and it's got two mod slots open. Why not?


In DoomRL, assembled weapons can only be modded once at most so it would not even be possible to come up with a Gatling Gun+PB. This mod does allow two further mod packs to be used on assembled weapons rather than just one but I think allowing the creation of one assembly on top of another would be unbalanced. In my opinion, the way it currently is now keeps basic weapons and some of the unique weapons relevant. For example, an assault shotgun would still be a desired find even if you already have a tactical shotgun (which is very easy to build early on) because an assault shotgun can be turned into a plasmatic shrapnel shotgun while a tactical shotgun cannot. You would also have to weigh the benefits between a gatling gun and a high power chaingun instead of the high power gatling gun being such an obvious choice.

Hm, yeah, that's true. I do have to weigh my options in that regard. Hell, sometimes I have to decide to keep the chaingun or get a minigun, because while one is greatly superior at killing things, even as the Marine it eats bullets like popcorn.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby Yholl » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:02 pm

twinkieman93 wrote:If you don't mind people throwing ideas at you, I have two. One, make the Mysterious Magnum makes its noise when you pick it up as opposed to the generic unique noise. You know. That noise. Its noise. The one that anyone who's got the gun in FO:NV knows about. I'm the guy who told the guy who made that sprite to make the sprite, and I did so with the sole purpose of imitating that weapon in a mod he was making, so I was a bit bummed when the illustrious sound didn't make an appearance.


Hahaha, deal. Unfortunately, I played FO3 so much that when NV came out, it just... didn't click for me. Barely played it. That's why the gun is so freaking weird in this, because it's called the Mysterious Magnum, so I made it mysterious as f**k. It wasn't based off of the NV gun at all. But I'll put that sound in just for you. Look forward to it in Beta 2! :)

twinkieman93 wrote:Anyways, idea two, I had the idea that you can apply a High Power mod to a weapon that's already had one applied to it and get a Max Power mod. Even lower magazine capacity but oodles of delicious damage. Also, certain weapons that should be able to support a High Power mod according to the rules on the wiki should get them. For example, the Gatling Gun? It's not a shotgun, it certainly holds more than five rounds in the magazine, and it's got two mod slots open. Why not?


Hmm, that's actually a fairly cool idea... I won't put it in the normal version of the mod, but when I get up to making an expansion... The High Power mod doesn't really have much in the way of benefits, having it be a weird multi-stage assembly could be neat.

Heh, I wonder if anyone's stumbled upon the most destructive attack in the entire game yet. Good ol' High Power assembly, you do silly things.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 1

Postby twinkieman93 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:10 pm

Yholl wrote:Heh, I wonder if anyone's stumbled upon the most destructive attack in the entire game yet. Good ol' High Power assembly, you do silly things.

The only way that could have been better is if Doomguy said a badass one liner right before... well, just make a High Power Nuclear BFG and hold down the trigger for a few seconds. You'll see.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 2

Postby Yholl » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:20 pm

Beta 2 has been released, with a few minor bugfixes and all sorts. Go absorb it into your bloodstream from the main post, you handsome rogue you.
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Re: [WIP] DoomRL Arsenal - Beta 2

Postby twinkieman93 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:00 pm

I haven't done much experimenting with the plasma shotgun, but it seems pretty neat. I didn't expect to be able to put a plasmatic shrapnel mod onto a plasma shotgun with the obvious logical fallacy involved, but I'm glad you can, because that was pretty funny. Speaking of funny, attempting to drop your fists is good for a quick laugh.
It'd be even funnier if you kept trying to do it anyways and eventually the game lets you, resulting in your immediate death due to blood loss.
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