High Quality Animations Project

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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby GooberMan » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:04 pm

GooberMan wrote:linearly interpolated frames

I used that all the way back in my second post to explain what your animations were doing, and it explains exactly what I went in to more detail with quite clearly and explicitly.

This conversation was obviously needed, though. And still is needed if you think altering frame duration is good enough.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby zrrion the insect » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:07 pm

I could swear I saw a thread on Doomworld with a similar goal, but if I'm remembering correctly, most of what was being changed was sprite offssets, and I think a few oddities of other sprites, like stray pixels and whatnot. I think this is it.
Anyway, I like the goal of this project, but since there isn't a beta out for me to muck about with, I'll just have to wait to see how this turns out.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:10 pm

wildweasel wrote:I don't think this was the time or place for a Picard facepalm. I thought Goober's post was quite readable; maybe you should have re-read it a few times, maybe asked him about things that you didn't understand, instead of assuming he meant something else and telling him "no."


Here
His arm movement would be more akin to a sin curve

he clearly stated that he was talking about the movement itself, not the acceleration.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby GooberMan » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:13 pm

Nope. Anyone with a basic understanding of animation would not has misinterpreted that statement as hilariously as you did.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Matt » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:37 pm

zrrion the insect wrote:I could swear I saw a thread on Doomworld with a similar goal, but if I'm remembering correctly, most of what was being changed was sprite offssets, and I think a few oddities of other sprites, like stray pixels and whatnot. I think this is it.
Awesome.


Okay, some more thoughts now that I've actually downloaded this instead of relying on gifs and video:

Zombieman: The new attack seems to go like this:
1. Come to a full stop.
2. Only once stopped, begin pointing the gun.
3. Start pulling the trigger while your arms are moving.
4. Once you feel the recoil, immediately lower your weapon without assessing the situation and keep moving.

As opposed to this, which is what I read into the old "POSS E 10 A_FaceTarget POSS F 8 Bright A_PosAttack POSS E 8 Goto See":
1. Start pointing the weapon as you come to a stop. (POSS A/B/C/D EDIT: Or, more precisely, the missing frame between those and POSS E)
3. Line up your shot. (POSS E 10 A_FaceTarget)
4. Shoot. (POSS F 8 Bright A_PosAttack)
5. Keep shooting until your target drops or starts shooting back. (n/a - it's doom, if you're not shooting back you're not even looking that way)
6. Once one of the above conditions is met, lower weapon and begin moving. (Goto See)
I suppose it would explain their shitty aim, though. :V Would be in character, too, that they're treating their guns like some kind of swinging weapon...

Same for shotgun guy.

The imp's attack seems kind of not-fluid, like it's really angry in that "I'm upset at you but I'm conflicted about hurting you" sort of way that it's wasting a lot of energy looking angry rather than hitting you as effectively as it biomechanically can. I think it's how it sort of scrunches up during its windup, which is there in the vanilla sprites but is lost in the noise/your brain edits it out because there's no keyframe that emphasizes that motion.

For zombie, shotgun guy and imp I don't really notice any visual improvement in their walking animations. One problem with the originals is how the feet just sort of shuffle along the floor - if you could fix that, smoother animations or not you've got a hell of a major visual enhancement mod.

Right-handing the pistol for no reason was very unnecessary and offputting.

Chaingun guy is definitely the best of them - very smooth and natural looking.

Demon's animation also v. satisfactorily smooth, except if you could get rid of that little pause when the foot hits the ground like I mentioned before. Chomp animation a huge improvement.
Last edited by Matt on Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Doom64hunter » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:44 pm

GooberMan wrote:Nope. Anyone with a basic understanding of animation would not has misinterpreted that statement as hilariously as you did.


Or maths, or even logic.

I mean who in their right mind would shake around their gun in the wave of a sine function :lol:
Last edited by Doom64hunter on Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:48 pm

That aside, that's how the chaingunguy will look in-game. I reduced the duration of his mid frames to simulate acceleration/deceleration at the starting and ending frames.
Image


Doom64hunter wrote:Or maths, or even logic.

I mean who in their right mind would shake around their gun in the motion of a sine function :lol:


When I thought he was talking about the animation itself, I assumed that he was talking about the shape of the arch that a sine wave has.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Triple S » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:01 pm

GooberMan wrote:Nope. Anyone with a basic understanding of animation would not has misinterpreted that statement as hilariously as you did.


Sergeant Mark might be overreacting a lot (what else is new), but you've been a dick pretty much during this entire thread. Shut up for a second and realize that not everyone is a professional animator and understands the terms you're using. You could have avoided this entire argument by using layman's terms. This section is not just for professionals, it's also for people who just want to make something neat on ZDoom in their spare time, so keep that in mind when explaining concepts. Be simple, use non-technical examples, because otherwise it's going to fly over the heads of those without technical knowledge of the subject. And when the person you're criticizing doesn't understand what you're talking about, rather than talking down to/insulting them - even if they overreacted to your criticism due in part to misunderstanding you - be calm, stay nice, and simplify your terminology. Be the bigger man, and you'll get better results. Otherwise, you're no better than those who start a shit-flinging contest the moment anyone says their work isn't great, because you're more than willing to dip your hands in the filth.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby GooberMan » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:06 pm

Your argument might have merit if pretty much everyone else replying in the thread didn't get what I was saying. I used the exact terminology you'd find in grade school mathematics.

It might also have merit if you didn't start by insulting me and then went on to talk about being a bigger man. Good one, genius.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Dortold » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:06 pm

Almost two pages before a tiff broke out? I think that's a Mark thread record.

Anyway, I don't understand most of what you're saying GooberMan, but I do agree that the sprites could use some more fluidity... however one goes about doing such a thing.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:38 pm

Test 2 download link on first post. I modified the speed of many animations, added smooth animations for Cacodemon, smooth torches and burning barrels, and smooth water.
Suggestions are welcome.
For now infighting is disabled, because the new sprites only have one rotations.
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Matt » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:17 pm

Definitely looking a lot better!
(thanks for restoring the pistol too)

Some suggestions with code:

Zombieman:
Code: Select allExpand view
   Missile:
      PSSA A 2 A_FaceTarget
      PSSA B 2 A_FaceTarget
      POSS E 5 A_FaceTarget
      POSS F 2 A_PosAttack
      POSS E 5
      PSSA BA 3
      PSSA A 1
      Goto See
i.e. what I was saying before. I still don't like the way it looks, actually, because it really highlights the awkward way the Doom characters carry their guns, but that's a problem with the source material that can't be solved without redoing literally all the zombie sprites other than death.

Imp:
Code: Select allExpand view
   See:
      TRSO AABBCCDDEEFF 2 A_Chase
      Loop
   Missile:
      TRSO IIIIJJJKL 1 A_FaceTarget
      TRSO M 3 A_TroopAttack
      TRSO LLKKJ 1
      Goto See
A little bit more windup before the throw, which I think looks a bit closer to the original. EDIT: Also added a suggestion for the see state to make it actually smooth looking.

Demon:
Code: Select allExpand view
   See:
      SSRG AABB 2 A_Chase
      SSRG C 1 A_Chase
      SSRG DDEE 2 A_Chase
      SSRG F 1 A_Chase
      Loop
I kept getting this awful "glide" effect (I've got interpolate sprites on) until it occured to me that when you're running the moment of contact between foot and ground should actually be very brief, so the frames where the foot is touching down should actually be shorter than the others. Did that, no more glide.

(btw the demon looks really wonky from any angle than head-on, I assume WIP)
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby ibm5155 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:30 pm

Wow so many posts about the movments lol, well I liked the way sargent mark iv did and man, if all the time everyone find a simple problem on it, it´ll be same as all the hd texture packs.
nol speaking that what he didn´t do is perfect, but well, he´s not receiving money, not working for do that, doing all that for free and by hobby. So why all that text file war?
I hope this project get 100% animated frames :s
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby zrrion the insect » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:51 pm

It looks pretty good however, the demon's attack was weird(I think it's because the thing's shoulders drift upward) and the imp's feet drift up when it attacks.
The smooth flames look bad. The tall torches look okay, but it doesn't work at all on candles (which really don't need an animation) and the short torches look like the flame is in front of the torch. Most everything else looks pretty good for an alpha though.
I don't know if you've made these already, but I've got a few frames for the bullet puff and the barrel explosion made already:
Image
Would you mind if I tried my hand at making some smooth flames that aren't swiped from Hexen?
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Re: High Quality Animations Project

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:56 pm

Yes, sure. You are free to it a try.
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