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-Ghost-
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by -Ghost- »

esselfortium wrote:
-Ghost- wrote:I don't know if this is tied into this mapset or not, but I noticed once or twice I'd get "stuck" inside a wall and couldn't move even though I was barely touching the wall. If I noclipped my way out I'd get pushed in the direction I was going with a decent amount of force. I'll see if I can make it happen again so I can give you a map number.
Dew found an issue that sounded a lot like that in some early versions of MAP03. It seems to be related to the use of odd-angled lines in tight corners. If you can find where it's happening, it should be no trouble to fix.
Okay, if I notice it again I'll let you know, so far it's only happened once or twice.
Blue Shadow
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Blue Shadow »

-Ghost- wrote:I don't know if this is tied into this mapset or not, but I noticed once or twice I'd get "stuck" inside a wall and couldn't move even though I was barely touching the wall. If I noclipped my way out I'd get pushed in the direction I was going with a decent amount of force. I'll see if I can make it happen again so I can give you a map number.
That sounds like this issue. You need an SVN build of r3970 or higher.

@esselfortium: You might want to change the note about the minimum required version of ZDoom to play this wad with.
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Caleb13
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Caleb13 »

Nobody reported this so far, so here are my bug-squashing 2 cents. In map 20, there are 2 monsters ready to be teleported at unsuspecting player in sectors 617 and 618. But for whatever reason, these traps don't work and thus 100% kills can't be attained. I tested your 0.99e version in the latest SVN (r3982) Zdoom and in some old-ish version (1.6.0 I think) of GZdoom, but the traps failed to work in both.
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Blue Shadow »

I've played through 10 maps so far, and from that, I've found the visuals and gameplay to be very solid. However, most, if not all, of the maps seem to follow the same idea of exploring a techbase facility of some sort with "rooms" and hallways that are interconnected with each other to achieve non-linearity. The maps look almost identical theme-wise with not so much to set them apart from each other. I'm aware this is the first episode in a series, hence the similarities, but still, they could've been made a little unique. Also, the textures don't help either; unlike Doom textures, I don't see that much variety here. With Doom's, you get steel, stone, silver, brick, etc, but here, not so much. They all feel to be made out of the same material, to me.

Now, if the episode was shorter (like 8 or 10 levels) this wouldn't be that big of a deal, because I'm probably in the second episode by now with its unique theme. Unfortunately, this is not the case here.


Just a note about the colormap: I'm not too keen on how the colormap handles the pink range with distance/darkness. Look at the pinky demon; if you're close to it, it's pink, which is nice and dandy, but at some distance, it turns into hot-red, suddenly. :?
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Xaser
 
 
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Xaser »

Blue Shadow wrote:However, most, if not all, of the maps seem to follow the same idea of exploring a techbase facility of some sort with "rooms" and hallways that are interconnected with each other to achieve non-linearity.
I feel like you could have shortened this sentence to "these are Doom levels." :P

Kidding aside, I guess I'm in the other side of the boat as far as the sameness issue is concerned. The maps are all wonderfully distinct to me, with the thematic unified-ness being a big plus, IMO. 'Course, I've pre-played several of the maps and know what else is there in store, so it's not like I'm an unbiased source. :P

I honestly think a big part about it is that when playing through it the first time, there's only so much you're going to remember about the wad on the first pass. It's a lot like listening to a new album by an artist you like -- even if you enjoy it, chances are that while a few tracks will stick out, as a whole the experience will blur together a bit. I've found this to be true with pretty much any sort of "album-length" media, and I'm thinking the same sorta thing might be happening here to some. It's a thematically consistent episode of (if I'm allowed to say so) well-crafted maps, but the same can be said of Doom's E1, in a sense. Sure, we all know E1 by heart and can probably describe all the little facets of Nuclear Plant and how it's worlds apart from Computer Station, but how many times have we played Knee-Deep in the Dead? ;)

To provide a further example: this certainly happened to me when playing through Quake for the first time. After completing, I did find it rather surprising how very little of the maps were "memorable", with only "that blue map" and a few other scenes leaving a permanent trace. Having returned to the game once or twice since, I've actually found myself ecstatic at how unique and devious each individual map is: from the sheer insanity of Tower of Despair's dark hallways to the beautiful and imposing bridgeways of Wizard's Manse to the trap-heavy hallways of Gloom Keep... Each map has its own identity, even if I was unable to discern it at a first glance. Now I find it quite worthy of "putting the album on repeat," to extend the metaphor. :P

tl;dr: If the first playthrough seems "same-y", I doubt the second will. If all else fails, I can say with confidence that E2 and E3 most certainly will not have such trouble. ;)
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esselfortium
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by esselfortium »

Blue Shadow wrote:However, most, if not all, of the maps seem to follow the same idea of exploring a techbase facility of some sort with "rooms" and hallways that are interconnected with each other to achieve non-linearity.
As Xaser said, I can't help but feel like you could leave out the word "techbase" and pretty much have a description of most Doom levels. :P

And now, attempting to address some issues I've heard a bunch:
The maps look almost identical theme-wise with not so much to set them apart from each other. I'm aware this is the first episode in a series, hence the similarities, but still, they could've been made a little unique.
They're all tech maps, but they're pretty unique from each other in layout progression, texture composition, color choices, architectural style, lighting, enough so that I can identify pretty nearly any of them from looking at a random corner. And I honestly don't know every inch of the maps by heart, they're just generally pretty easy to identify by architecture and texture theme. Like Xaser said, it is a lot of levels to take in in a short time, though, so they might blur together a bit.
Also, the textures don't help either; unlike Doom textures, I don't see that much variety here. With Doom's, you get steel, stone, silver, brick, etc, but here, not so much. They all feel to be made out of the same material, to me.
Pretty nearly all of Doom's techbase textures have direct equivalents in Back to Saturn X's bases, in addition to all the completely new additions and different color and shape variants. Everything you listed is in there, and they only make up a small portion of the overall set.
Now, if the episode was shorter (like 8 or 10 levels) this wouldn't be that big of a deal, because I'm probably in the second episode by now with its unique theme. Unfortunately, this is not the case here.
There are no filler maps, so feel free to play however many levels you want or just idclev around at random until you're satisfied that your Get Out Of My Stations experience has reached your desired length. As an added bonus, if you feel like coming back to it at a later date you will find a number of new maps that you haven't played yet. Hopefully you're enjoying the set, anyway. :wink:
Machalite
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Machalite »

In MAP12, there's five sectors (I think) with nukeage that don't cause damage, which I'm assuming was unintentional. It's the little tunnel I'm standing in in the screenshot.
Spoiler:
Blue Shadow
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Blue Shadow »

Xaser wrote:I feel like you could have shortened this sentence to "these are Doom levels." :P
esselfortium wrote:As Xaser said, I can't help but feel like you could leave out the word "techbase" and pretty much have a description of most Doom levels. :P
I guess what I was going for with that (sorry for the confusion) is that they feel too much non-linear for me, even more so than the original Doom levels. Couple that with what I said above about how I found them to be too similar theme-wise and I end up becoming totally burnt out. I think I don't have much tolerance for such mapping style. I love it, and how things lead to each other when it comes to layout, but I don't think I have the tolerance to play two dozens of maps with this style without an occasional "break" (if you know what I mean) between them to refresh me up.

Apparently, the fault with me in the end, and not the maps themselves. :P
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esselfortium
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by esselfortium »

Hmm... We might be misunderstanding each other due to a difference in terminology. There's a lot of looping around in many of the layouts, but the majority of the maps force a rather linear progression from one area to the next. I notoriously have the navigational ability of a flea and try to keep things as straightforward as possible, though there are certainly some notable exceptions in there.

At one point I was actually considering including a disclaimer with BTSX's release that it's probably best enjoyed in a few installments. I think I may have underestimated the percentage of the community that'd be willing to power through an entire megawad in one sitting. :P
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.+:icytux:+.
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by .+:icytux:+. »

As i've played through the whole thing in pretty much "one sitting" i've gotta agree that the maps get somewhat repetetive around map 17-18 etc. but IMO when i came to map19 there was a slight change in style for the maps and from there on it kept feeling somewhat refreshing. Just so you know people so don't give up before that and try to atleast get up to those maps and you'll get a burst of interest again! (or i'm just weird and felt this weird boner at map19 for no reason)
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RottKing
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by RottKing »

I got a boner from you saying you got a boner
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Project Shadowcat
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Project Shadowcat »

RottKing wrote:I got a boner from you saying you got a boner
If this turns into a fencing match, I'm getting the fuck out of here.
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Snarboo
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Snarboo »

I've played up to Map 6, and I have to say this is a gorgeous set of maps so far. It always impresses me that Doom mapping has gotten to the point where just about every big release is worth playing and offers something new. I'm really curious to see where this goes in the next few maps.

That said, I have to echo others comments regarding the map design. It does get a bit samey, and I don't mean that in a "I can't tell these maps apart" sort of way. Instead I'd say the map design is too consistent. A good example of what I mean by this is Quake 2: Quake 2 had beautiful map design, but by the second or third hub, you were so sick of tech bases that you just wanted to put the game down for a while.

There's not a lot being done here to break up the monotony. I feel a little more experimentation with the design might have been good. What "experimentation" means I can't say. Perhaps a cave map if there isn't one already?

In any case, you can tell you have a great map set on your hands when that's the only complaint that anyone could possibly make about it. :)
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Enjay
 
 
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Enjay »

I've only dipped in to a couple of maps but I like what I see. Good looking maps with nice gameplay and layouts that don't leave me confused.

[edit] Played a few more and I really like these maps. Good fun. Also, the textures are very nice - and I like the menu and message fonts too.[/edit]
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Naniyue
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Re: Back to Saturn X Episode I released! (0.99e, map21 fix)

Post by Naniyue »

One word (and a punctuation mark): Beautiful!

Only played a little bit so far, but liking what I see, and hear! Makes old 256 color DooM graphics look good again! Nice music choices so far, too.
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