The Hexen Thread 2012

[Hornetzero]

As some of you may have noticed, newer members are showing up around this forum and are clueless on what is happening around. I knew about this forum a long time back but wasn't too interested in these old games. I saw Brutal Doom and I got interested.

Now, I was just going on about making sprites and all and I realised that half the stuff I creatively thought up are already done by other members. Yesterday, I just downloaded Hexen Serpent resurrection because I saw some seriously awesome sprites in the thread about it. It didn't work ofcourse. Needless to say, I wish to request here, that have all the resources and other work done for Hexen comes in this thread as newcomers would be easily able to follow up with whats already done so far in terms of modding.

Its not compilation that I seek, but the fact that I'm getting tired of experiencing that feeling of "reinventing the wheel" when I think up of a concept thats already done. Mind you, I'm not a coder nor a map designer. If I was, I might have really made everyone happy by designing my outlook on Hexen. I'm just a sprite artist and that too at 16 bit graphics and animation.

So, this thread serves as a kickoff point for new members, in which we brainstorm about ideas for Hexen and to some degree, Heretic. I think Hexen 2 and Heretic 2 were very poorly made. They may have had excellent graphics but everything else from bosses to monster designs were god aweful. I think Heretic had/has the best monster design in the Raven serpent rider series. In Hexen, the centaur, those swamp critters and the Heresiarch were the only good things to catch my eyes. Everything else was just plain ugly, including the lame Serpents (Whats the big idea taking this right off Heretic Raven? Couldn't come up with something more creative than a Spawn Violator ripoff?).

As many have discussed, the other primary faults of Hexen are:

- Poor level design (I totally and utterly dislike the gibbet and the clock tower level. I suspect the map designer must have been in some broken down Jail, located in the poorest portion of Europe when he designed those lame ass excuses for hubs). They remind me of my Grandma's old house which was just as grim and depressing, as she has become. I like to see the backgrounds portrayed as vibrant and solid, not garish and ruined.

- Dumbass puzzles. Who the hell goes around looking for these stupid tiny little planets around a huge hub filled with pits and crushers. By the way, its not the monsters that usually kill me, its those stupid traps). Perhaps this is why I could speed run through Heretic without getting killed often.

You know what would have been really interesting? Having to stop a mega flachette from going off like in Counter Strike. Imagine having a time limit to quickly get to the bomb and stop it from blowing up, or else the whole place would have been filled with green poison smog. Killing everything including you, if you didn't haul your ass out in time.

Here is another one. Have a place filled with mirrors and try navigating through that with Monsters coming at you from behind and front.

- The Weapons. I'm mixed about this. As a kid I found the interesting, but found them boring by the time I reached the Clock Tower. Couldn't we have been given a few more additionally interesting choices? Also, if not a direct weapon than hows about an inventory item that acts as a weapon? Like the flachette or the dark servant?

- Korax sucks big time. Dispiril was probably the best serpent rider while the other two are just designed to look dumb and uninteresting. Zedek, Menelkir and Traductus could have also been designed better. Couldn't they have had something grand before they came out to fight? Like a Dark Servant or Super versions of the Regular Monsters? I was hoping to get something similar to Shao Kahn's Arena when I entered to fight Zedek.


On note about Hexen mods. I was aware of this mod for Doom 3 called Hexen: Chaos Something. It... sucks. Sorry to be harsh, but everytime these games are changed to 3d, they loose the grace of the animation and fullness of the sprites they are based off. Indy or Company made, no model is an exception. In this mod's case, the monsters die in a bloody cloud, and the weapons shown are totally small and inferior in design to their sprite versions. Why do people streamline these designs so much? Its so stupid. Things are suppose to look big, dense and well animated when converted to 3d, not small and tacky.

The good thing I found in this mod was the ability to swim. Though, I'm not sure how the swamp monsters would fair with that.

[Blox]

Sorry to be harsh, but everytime these games are changed to 3d, they loose the grace of the animation and fullness of the sprites they are based off. Indy or Company made, no model is an exception. In this mod's case, the monsters die in a bloody cloud, and the weapons shown are totally small and inferior in design to their sprite versions. Why do people streamline these designs so much? Its so stupid. Things are suppose to look big, dense and well animated when converted to 3d, not small and tacky.

Maybe, just maybe it's because it wasn't made by people who know what they're doing.

And in case you're wondering, no. You can't have nice things like the linked image.

[TerminusEst13]

Needless to say, I wish to request here, that have all the resources and other work done for Hexen comes in this thread as newcomers would be easily able to follow up with whats already done so far in terms of modding.

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=16660 - I made an additional class for HeXen once. I like HeXen.

Probably could have given it a lot of extra polishing now, though, now that I look back on it. Oh well, hindsight 20/20 etc.

[Hornetzero]

So it seems that an update was indeed made. The last time I checked on Moddb and youtube videos, there was no sign of any centaurs beyond concept art. This one doesn't even look like the concept art.

EDIT: Wait a minute. Blox, that model isn't from H:EoC? You made it customly right?

[Blox]

Of course it isn't, you can't have nice things, as I said.

If it was mine there would at least be some chance that it'd get out.

[Blue Shadow]

If this thread's purpose is about Hexen-made stuff, then why the rant?

- Dumbass puzzles. Who the hell goes around looking for these stupid tiny little planets around a huge hub filled with pits and crushers. By the way, its not the monsters that usually kill me, its those stupid traps). Perhaps this is why I could speed run through Heretic without getting killed often.

Just because the game is running on a Doom engine, doesn't mean it should play exactly like Doom. Besides, Heretic already fills that role. We don't want a second Doom-like game with slightly different contents than Heretic, now do we?

[Hornetzero]

Why not Blue Shadow? If I don't like an aspect about Hexen, wouldn't I put it here, considering the whole point of this thread is to collect stuff to IMPROVE Hexen.

Just because the game is running on a Doom engine, doesn't mean it should play exactly like Doom. Besides, Heretic already fills that role. We don't want a second Doom-like game with slightly different contents than Heretic, now do we?

Both Doom and Heretic had crushers and pits too. The difference was how they were utilized in comparison to Hexen. In Doom and Heretic, the crushers are conveniently placed to kill large bosses instantly (The Spider Mastermind and the Maulotaur respectively). The pits in both these games don't kill, but drop you to a hazardous surface, from which you need to move away. You still survive if you manage to have alot of health.

In Hexen, it just gets annoying after the first run in the guardian of fire. Its fun when they kill Monsters, but not cool when you slip and fall to your death. Which is part of a bigger problem. Alot of things in Hexen Kill the player instantly (The Ground Spikes, The Gouting Fireballs and those damn rising Ground Blocks.)

[Blue Shadow]

Both Doom and Heretic had crushers and pits too. The difference was how they were utilized in comparison to Hexen.

Haven't you played adventure or [insert sutible genre here] games where you had to avoid traps like crushers or the fact that they had insta-death pits?

[Hornetzero]

Haven't you played adventure or [insert sutible genre here] games where you had to avoid traps like crushers or the fact that they had insta-death pits?

Ever played a game in which all that stuff is more appropriately placed and utilized in game? Like Blood or even Duke 3d?

[Matt]

I don't like Hexen because the best set of maps ever made for it is too scary.

[amv2k9]

I've been playing Deathkings of the Dark Citadel lately. On difficulty 4, although I am playing it with a weapons mod that spices things up a bit and makes everyone at least a little more capable of killing things. This is the farthest I've ever gotten in it; I'm on the Ordeal map, which I believe is part of the third hub. For those who never got that far, well, let me just say that Ordeal is a really freaking apt name.

---

The map starts off with a horde of Ettins. No problem. Then comes a pair of ice shard traps to start off what is literally a gauntlet of at least a dozen Bishops in a very narrow hall. They don't wake up until you actually start running past them. Right after that hall, the path narrows to a foot wide with death pits on either side... and another ice shard trap. Firing. Right. At. You. As that thing is trying to turn you into a popsicle, the foot-wide path makes a ninety-degree turn towards the next area. Hope you still have plenty of Quartz Flasks after that Heresiarch fight in a crowded courtyard just before this map! After you get past that, you come into a larger room that basically turns into Touhou: Medieval Edition: Electric Boogaloo with all the Bishops and Afrits flying around trying to kill you. Then you can exit.

Then you get to do that map again, because you don't have the Castle Key yet, and you still need to go into the secret barred-off passages chock-a-block with Chaos Serpents that lie off to the side of the Hall Of The Assload Of Bishops that you probably didn't notice because you were too busy trying not to, you know, die.

...But I am going to finish this! And I'm not going to savescum through it!

I'm also playing the original Hexen. When I first played it, I was stuck for a while in the Seven Portals, thanks to the first pair of switches in the Guardian of Steel that you need to use to shift that steel wall that provides access to, one at a time, two more switches that open up access to... wait for it... more switches in the hub. Well I never got what the heck those two original steel-wall-shifting switches did until by chance I was looking at the automap while I hit them. Once I did that, the rest of the first hub was a snap, except for that fight with the horde of Wendigos.

Then I got stuck on the second hub, because I couldn't figure out how to open up the castle in the swamp map. Turns out that on a wall in that hut with the locked door where the Castle Key is stored, there's a switch that does it. Chances are, you wouldn't even see that switch, because you'd go up to the door on the wall opposite, read the "this gets opened elsewhere" message, then turn around and go explore the rest of the level for twenty minutes. Once I found that switch completely by accident, the rest of the hub was a breeze.

Now I'm (suprise!) stuck in the third hub looking for all those gems you're supposed to put in the star map thingy.

[Woolie Wool]

Both Doom and Heretic had crushers and pits too. The difference was how they were utilized in comparison to Hexen.

Haven't you played adventure or [insert sutible genre here] games where you had to avoid traps like crushers or the fact that they had insta-death pits?

I did, it was called King's Quest and it's a really annoying game that only supergrognard masochists like.

[Demon!]

I love the Heretic/Hexen series and it saddens me that it never received the popularity it deserves. Recently I introduced a friend of mine to it - he liked it so much that he ordered the entire package just a few hours after having played the shareware episode of Heretic

I tend to disagree about the level design - I liked it very much. Hub 2, especially, is very atmospheric. The Swamp level isn't just a map - it's a work of art. Hub 3 of DKotDC is a masterpiece (well, maybe except the Cloaca - it's just a filthy sewer).

The puzzles are okay. Yeah, some of them don't make much sense, but at least they are challenging and I like that. They make you explore and experiment, making the game less linear. Most modern shooters don't stimulate players to think and that is a huge minus, at least in my book.

And the game actually has an interesting story, though many people simply don't bother following it (it's their loss). And there is always room for more (as the Serpent Riders' souls were eventually released into the void at the end of Portal of Praevus - so they might return some day).

The weapons are fine - they are thematic and reflect the character of the class that you play. I liked the way the Mage's spells appear as a scroll and book in-game.


I agree about Korax - he is a lousy boss indeed. The battle with D'Sparil is a lot more challenging and epic

So my advice is this: improve the game, but preserve the original spirit. It is important.

[Virtue]

I heard early on in the game development that the heresiarch was the true serpent rider and korax was his er, serpent. It makes no sense that Korax isnt riding anything, i think it wouldve gone down better if they had made heresiarch the LAST boss with Korax the sub boss.

Makes even more sense when we see at the end of Heretic a close up of the heresiarch...

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Yesterday, I just downloaded Hexen Serpent resurrection because I saw some seriously awesome sprites in the thread about it. It didn't work ofcourse..

What kind of error were you getting? Were you using GZDoom 1.6.0 or later?