Slowing down the player - Accepted in which circumstances?

[Gez]

They see it as representing a last burst of effort to try and save your life and a fairer game mechanic (ie you get your burst of speed when you need it most).

It's also a what is called an adrenaline rush, so it is totally realistic.

[Enjay]

It's also a what is called an adrenaline rush, so it is totally realistic.

If your legs have been shot out from under you, you can have all the adrenaline you like, you won't be rushing anywhere.

Design your level so that going in with all guns blazing, (as many Doomers seem to be limited to ) it will result in a quick and painful death. The game will automatically be slowed down if that tactic doesn't work in your level and a more careful approach is needed.

Yes. To me that's what the Thief games did so well. I came to Thief as a seasoned Doom player and initially went in "all guns (er, blackjacks) blazing" and died almost straight away. The player very quickly learns that different tactics are required and, once you get that - strange as it may seem - you can have incredible enjoyment sitting crouched in a dark corner of a level hiding from the patrolling guards, too scared to even touch the mouse for fear that the slightest movement would give you away.

[Kinsie]

Passing thought: Has anyone tried speeding up the player when their health is really low? It gives them a slight extra chance while also reinforcing a "ohshitohshitrunRUNRUN" attitude of desperate fleeing and picking-your-fights until you can find healing.

[Enjay]

You haven't read the whole thread have you?

[Gez]

It's also a what is called an adrenaline rush, so it is totally realistic.

If your legs have been shot out from under you, you can have all the adrenaline you like, you won't be rushing anywhere.

*checks chasecam*
My legs are still there.

[Matt]

I'd like to see the player slowed down when you're dealing with lots of tight spaces and everything is designed with the expectation that you're defending yourself by getting behind cover or shooting back.

Anything that calls for circlestrafing, though, I'm okay with a little slower than Doomguy but not much. (I've found playing the latest Serious Sam game... painful for this reason. Sometimes literally, just by having to lean on the left/right keys for so long.)

As for variable speed, I'm OK with slower for the following:
- Bigger weapon
- Thicker armour
- More ammo
- Injured (but this should apply to opponents as well, but otherwise seconding everything Enjay said)

And faster for the following:
- Optional, because moving much faster than TF2's scout pyro does horrors to my aim.
(EDIT: Actually this is an interesting dynamic for me with low-HP slowdowns, at least those that don't come with any further interface screw... low health, pressure to work harder, aim better. Not good at all in more recent "oldskool" games where everything seems to take a half dozen rounds to the balls before dropping, but up the damage a bit and it works quite well.)


As for the second question... yeah, what Graf said. Hitscans, exploding fastprojectiles, vilechain turrets. I remember Enjay had a mod a while back with lots of hitscan guys where the player had normal Doomguy speed but I still spent a lot of time cutting pies and ducking behind cover just not to get shot.

Increased ranges help too, I think. More space to cover means you can keep the doomguy fast enough that it doesn't feel like a frustrating slog to get from point A to point B, but the actual time taken might be quite significant. That, and you'll have to slow down to aim your distance shots. (Disclosure of bias: I just want to see more Doom mods with engagements at over 20 yards. or 10, really.)

Or maybe the weapons could be slower? No more bullet hose, just SSG and big elephant gun and muzzle-loaded RPG after your big six-shooter?

[ReX]

Another instance when slower speeds would be acceptable to me is when the player is on/in certain types of terrain - loose sand, swamp mud, underwater, waist-deep water, climbing uphill, etc.

Again, these are preferences that try to make the game "physics" more real-worldly. They are, obviously, not suitable for every (or even most) DooM mods. And when implemented in DooM mods they ought to be implemented with a sense of fairness and balance - just as with the development of any aspect of a well-made game.

[NeuralStunner]

This is why I don't make Doom mods. If I make a mod, it's my own terms. If anyone complains that it's not Doom, they rolled low on INT for thinking it was supposed to be.

Design your level so that going in with all guns blazing, (as many Doomers seem to be limited to ) it will result in a quick and painful death. The game will automatically be slowed down if that tactic doesn't work in your level and a more careful approach is needed.

Of course, if you do so you'll get complaints from that group of players that seems to be incapable of changing their tactics - remember KDiZD Z1M1? It can't be played with classic Doom tactics without getting into serious problems so for some players the level is defective.

I've always played Doom tactically. Despite many folks trying to infer that doesn't work, I somewhow end up being last player alive in survival mode games. (Granted, I promptly die because my backup got themselves killed in the process of alerting everything. Teamwork tactics obviously can't succeed without teamwork. Some folks in this community I still think are great but I don't want to coop with them. )

From this perspective, mods/maps I make are built around my gameplay ideals. I don't really get far because I see little demand for mods that require more thought than trigger-pulling.

[esselfortium]

Design your level so that going in with all guns blazing, (as many Doomers seem to be limited to ) it will result in a quick and painful death. The game will automatically be slowed down if that tactic doesn't work in your level and a more careful approach is needed.

Of course, if you do so you'll get complaints from that group of players that seems to be incapable of changing their tactics - remember KDiZD Z1M1? It can't be played with classic Doom tactics without getting into serious problems so for some players the level is defective.

It's nothing to do with change in strategy: there's simply nothing fun about spending the entirety of such a long, monotonous level hiding around corners shooting low-level monsters with a pistol. It's far easier to dismiss critics as foolish, though, I realize.

[Csonicgo]

Design your level so that going in with all guns blazing, (as many Doomers seem to be limited to ) it will result in a quick and painful death. The game will automatically be slowed down if that tactic doesn't work in your level and a more careful approach is needed.

Of course, if you do so you'll get complaints from that group of players that seems to be incapable of changing their tactics - remember KDiZD Z1M1? It can't be played with classic Doom tactics without getting into serious problems so for some players the level is defective.

It's nothing to do with change in strategy: there's simply nothing fun about spending the entirety of such a long, monotonous level hiding around corners shooting low-level monsters with a pistol. It's far easier to dismiss critics as foolish, though, I realize.

plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink *open door* plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink plink

[Gez]

Hexen as a mage.

[Csonicgo]

Hexen as a mage.

another great plinker.

Edit: Even sounds like that.

[Phml]

remember KDiZD Z1M1? It can't be played with classic Doom tactics without getting into serious problems so for some players the level is defective.

News to me! I've always played this level guns blazing and wouldn't think of doing it any other way. To an extent I would almost argue this level punishes you for playing slowly, because doing it that way the level becomes so long and repetitive, dozing off and getting killed just as slowly but surely is an ever-present possibility. With the relative lack of firepower on both sides, you truly want to get in there, skip through monsters and get those rapid fire troopers to take down groups of imps from behind while you also shoot at them - thanks to infighting being disabled, a single rapid fire trooper can easily take down half a dozen imps if you position yourself correctly. Much faster, much easier... Save for, admittedly, those times getting stuck on unnecessary detail lacking impassable lines or floor transfers; these I would definitely label as defective, so, there you go.

[Ravick]

Design your level so that going in with all guns blazing, (as many Doomers seem to be limited to ) it will result in a quick and painful death. The game will automatically be slowed down if that tactic doesn't work in your level and a more careful approach is needed.

Of course, if you do so you'll get complaints from that group of players that seems to be incapable of changing their tactics - remember KDiZD Z1M1? It can't be played with classic Doom tactics without getting into serious problems so for some players the level is defective.

It's nothing to do with change in strategy: there's simply nothing fun about spending the entirety of such a long, monotonous level hiding around corners shooting low-level monsters with a pistol. (...)

What is totally and purely subjective...

[Project Shadowcat]

Passing thought: Has anyone tried speeding up the player when their health is really low? It gives them a slight extra chance while also reinforcing a "ohshitohshitrunRUNRUN" attitude of desperate fleeing and picking-your-fights until you can find healing.

I had it planned at one point in my silly little mod.