Trying DoomBuilder

[LilWhiteMouse]

I'm trying to get into DoomBuilder, but got a couple basic questions trying to transition from ZETH.
1) How do I set the number of backups it creates, or disable it completely (I do my own backups)?
2) When I want to copy just a section of a sector, DoomBuilder wipes out the sidedef information. In ZETH, it would just make a copy of the linedefs, with new sidedef #s, but retaining all the other information. I want this behavior, I don't want DoomBuilder trying to "fix" everything.
3) When selecting New Tag from the thing edit dialog, it keeps jumping to the # 7. I only had one thing on the map (I think, see 5 & 6), so it should have gone to 1, right? Why is it doing this?
4) How I do "unselect all"? ZETH would clear the selection when changing modes (even if it's the same mode).
5) How do I select the next item in sequence (IE: Thing 1 to Thing 2 to Thing 3 etc...)?
6) Does it show anywhere how many items you have selected?

[Gez]

1. No idea. That said, it's only one backup file, so the backup will be overwritten each time you save.
2. I think there's an option for that.
3. The way it works, I think it looks for the highest existing tag and adds 1.
4. By default, it's 'C' for 'Clear selection' but you can change that.
5. Don't know if it exists. You can use the Find/Replace feature to search for thing 1, then thing 2, etc.; but it's not the same.
6. No idea.

[LilWhiteMouse]

1. No idea. That said, it's only one backup file, so the backup will be overwritten each time you save.

It keeps creating new ones every time I save. map02.dbs map02.wad.backup1 map02.wad.backup2 map02.wad.backup3

2. I think there's an option for that.

Where? I can't seem to find one, just a "Keep tags" option. I could be looking right at it and misinterpreting it though.

3. The way it works, I think it looks for the highest existing tag and adds 1.

There shouldn't have been any tags, AFAIK, I deleted all the existing actors prior. I don't suppose there's any way for it to find the first actual free tag, so they don't get wasted?

4. By default, it's 'C' for 'Clear selection' but you can change that.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I saw it, but incorrectly thought it meant "Delete Selection".

[EDIT] In case I'm running the wrong version, I'm using 2.1.2.1553.

[Springy]

2.1.2.1553 is the latest version but I think they only fixed a recurring bug and added a new visplane mode. I don't think there's any other differences between versions. As far as I'm aware you have the right version. Unless Gez is using an earlier version and the latest is a lot different.

[Blue Shadow]

It keeps creating new ones every time I save.

I think the limit is three backup files.

Where? I can't seem to find one, just a "Keep tags" option. I could be looking right at it and misinterpreting it though.

There is a checkable option: "Remove all actions". Make sure it's unchecked.

I think it looks for the highest existing tag and adds 1.

It looks for the lowest unused tag and it sets it, i.e., you have tags 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and you click the "New Tage" button, it sets tag 5.

[LilWhiteMouse]

I think the limit is three backup files.

I don't want it to create any. I do not like extra files lurking about.

There is a checkable option: "Remove all actions". Make sure it's unchecked.

It is unchecked.

It looks for the lowest unused tag and it sets it, i.e., you have tags 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and you click the "New Tage" button, it sets tag 5.

I have used tags 1 and 2, that I had to set manually. "New Tag" is insistent on using 7. I don't think DoomBuilder likes me, maybe it senses my apprehension at using it?

[Blue Shadow]

I have used tags 1 and 2, that I had to set manually. "New Tag" is insistent on using 7.

Are these the only "things" to have tags in your map? Because it appears it accounts for sector tags as well. For instance, you have sectors with tags 1, 2 and 3 and you tag a thing (i.e., a monster) with the New Tag button, you get 4 not 1.

I don't want it to create any. I do not like extra files lurking about.

As far as I'm aware, there isn't. But don't take my words for it.

[LilWhiteMouse]

Are these the only "things" to have tags in your map? Because it appears it accounts for sector tags as well. For instance, you have sectors with tags 1, 2 and 3 and you tag a thing (i.e., a monster) with the New Tag button, you get 4 not 1.

This would be it, DoomBuilder isn't separating sector tags and TIDs.

[Phobus]

It goes one worse than that and also takes the tags of linedef actions into account. I think DB 1 was better in that regard, but obviously that is getting more and more outdated as time goes on now.

The .dbs file being created is DoomBuilder storing the editing information for your .WAD (IWAD, resource files being loaded and game mode) - it'll never be larger than 1KB or so I believe and it's worth keeping around until you're finished. The backups is unfortunate and does indeed seem to be hard-coded. The behaviour for keeping linedef actions, sector tags and the like is under Preferences (in Tools) - you get an option to keep tags as-is, or alter them to avoid any conflictions. It's on the same tab as the drop-down menu for how it treats heights when copy/pasting sectors (maintain heights or adjust them relative to the surrounding geometry).

One annoying feature that you'll want to keep any eye on is the way tags and sector specials spill over into newly created, adjacent sectors. This is particularly obvious when you're mapping in UDMF, as floor/ceiling alignments, fade colours and the like also copy over. Can be helpful, but half the time it's a hinderance for me. Having "Edit Things on insert" checked in preferences is also a PITA, although that may not bother you if you do actually want to change everything Thing you insert at time of placement.

[Nash]

The issue where sectors, things and linedefs all share the same tag pool has been reported to CodeImp in the past but he says he won't fix it... :S

[FDARI]

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I wonder why he'd reject that particular change. On the surface it looks trivial. I'd guess it has something to do with config-based support for different map-formats. Perhaps he thought it unsafe to assume that every different class of entity can have a separate tagpool without any kind of conflict, and therefore chose to guarantee distinct tids all over. Or maybe you have to enable the tag property more than once for each class of object, in such a manner that it is unclear from the config whether it should be assigned an existing tag pool or a new one. I don't know.

What scopes are there for tags/tids today?
Sectors
Lines (UDMF only in editor terms; the tagging specials wouldn't take advantage of an automated numbering feature)
ThingsI can't think of any scenario in the game where an attempt to interact with an entity from one scope could interfere with operations on another scope due to shared tids/tags.

[Won't fix] sounds like something that has a feasibility/design-related reason, but I can't really see what it should be. Was an explanation provided?

[Graf Zahl]

Any explanation would amount to either laziness or stupidity. There's absolutely no good reason to do such nonsense. These are very distinct values and should be treated as such. And with proper definition you can easily add all linedef parameters to look for them, too. Writing such code wouldn't take much longer than a few hours.

[Nash]

Okay, maybe "won't fix" isn't exactly what he said... he just said that it's difficult to do.

http://www.doombuilder.com/forums/viewt ... &hilit=tag

(Sorry CodeImp!)

[Graf Zahl]

What I don't understand is why it's hard to do. If the fields get declared properly in the config it should be a non-issue.

[LilWhiteMouse]

I believe and it's worth keeping around until you're finished.

I've decided to stick to ZETH for the bulk of my editing. I'm an old dog and DB is a new trick.

The behaviour for keeping linedef actions, sector tags and the like is under Preferences (in Tools) - you get an option to keep tags as-is, or alter them to avoid any conflictions. It's on the same tab as the drop-down menu for how it treats heights when copy/pasting sectors (maintain heights or adjust them relative to the surrounding geometry).

I don't have a drop down menu for that option.

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grab.png

Also, the "keep tags" doesn't do what I want. When I copy three of four sides in sector, DB wipes out the sidedef information. No sector reference, no texture, no nothing is retained. Any 2 sided linedefs get changed to 1, and DB flips any linedefs to try and create a close sector.