Does anybody use CD audio with ZDoom?

[Grubber]

Also, the 'File "" not found' story made my head hurt.

I think MS is to blame here. Error codes easily interchangeable with standard file descriptors? Come on. I also don't agree with the support-old-crap policy. It just encourages developers to continue using bad practises. But given that you probably don't have access to the old crap source code, it's understandable.

As for the topic, I haven't ever used the feature, so I'm for its removal.

[Graf Zahl]

Also, the 'File "" not found' story made my head hurt.

I think MS is to blame here. Error codes easily interchangeable with standard file descriptors?

No, of course they aren't. It just so happened that in this particular case both had the same value so the programming error never showed itself.

But the whole list of stories makes me wonder what kinds of morons were working on the software that produced these bugs. Seriously, every half-decent programmer should know never to mess around with system-internal stuff and yet they constantly manage to do anyway.

But I can see why Microsoft needs to address these things anyway. If they don't it's not 'Software XXX is crap because it's badly programmed' but 'Windows xyz is crap because it does not work with software XXX'. It doesn't matter in the end that the real culprit is somewhere else, the user will blame the new Windows version. After all, the (still broken) program worked with what he had before.

[Grubber]

It just so happened that they didn't foresee the possibility of programmers not checking if the return value is file descriptor or error code. We don't live in an ideal world where this is guaranteed, so they should have designed it in a way where possibility of such mistake is minimal (e.g. by numbering error codes in other fashion than from 0 upwards). This is a case of non-fool-proof design, thus it's IMO MS's fault. This particular feature (DOS open) begs to be misused and it's no wonder it actually was. They should have kept idiots in mind from the beginning. At least they do now (as everyone (more or less) else does, luckily).

[Graf Zahl]

It's easy to talk like that with more than a quarter of a century of hindsight.

Don't forget that these values were all old DOS relics from 25+ years ago. Back then programming was quite different and none of the foolproofness awareness you cited existed yet.

[NeuralStunner]

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

And another sobering thought:

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

[Graf Zahl]

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

... and that is why since a few revisions back ZDoom mercilessly aborts with an error if certain foolish exploits are attempted.

[zwouth]

Ugh, the whole debate on backwards compatibility. Microsoft HAS to do it - otherwise what's the point of getting Windows? If they broke all the junk apps that people rely on well... business people would probably still run win95 lol ask Intel about backward compatibility sometime... Who's fault is it when "that's just the way it is?"

Back then programming was quite different and none of the foolproofness awareness you cited existed yet.

I'm always reminded of this http://support.microsoft.com/kb/60089 and that "Death is the best teacher"

Does anybody use CD audio with ZDoom?

Not for a long time, so if it's in the way +1 to scrapping it.

add:

Don't worry, there's more. Here's some extra entertainment from the same author -- some, if not all, the linked stories are here, too, so there's more where that came from.

This is great stuff, thanks for linking Xaser

[Cutmanmike]

Oddly enough I used this yesterday. My Mrs came back from a concert and got a free CD from them and asked to stick it on, but I was in the middle of a game so I dropped the console and played it within ZDoom.

So far, I've only used this function to show off. "Hey look what I can do in Doom!!"

[Sodaholic]

In the few instances that people would actually use it, would it be possible to rewrite the cd playing code instead of just removing it?

[randi]

Yes, with NT kernels, it's possible to read the raw digital data off the disc and stream it through the sound system like any other digital music format. However, in the 10 years that CDs have been supported by ZDoom, so far it looks like it has never been used seriously. It works well enough as it is, so there's really no reason to modify it. Given that, it seems much more appropriate to remove it than to rewrite it.

[Kinsie]

... and that is why since a few revisions back ZDoom mercilessly aborts with an error if certain foolish exploits are attempted.

Are these exploits of the "prone to breaking randomly" kind, or of the "this is too awesome for you to be allowed to do" kind?

[InsanityBringer]

Are these exploits of the "prone to breaking randomly" kind, or of the "this is too awesome for you to be allowed to do" kind?

The former. The covered-up exploit involved overriding the internal MAPINFO lumps (can't remember the names offhand) with new ones from a mod, because those files are prone to change at any time. There's no need to override them considering that just making a lump named "MAPINFO" is enough.

[luzago]

in fact,I do not use it myself.

[Ixnatifual]

I usually slap on the CD when playing Hexen. I could probably live without, though.

[chmmr]

Removing CD support would make it harder to do stuff like this:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?postid=938250

(assuming anyone does something with that idea)