[WIP] Doom's Inferno (Limbo Demo, first page)

[JMAA]

Thats my favourite passage.

Unless you talk about the Anger circle, in which souls fight each other in the river Styx.

Yes, it's funny when Dante waits up long to Virgil asking for "Lucifer's permission."

[Parthoris]

Thats my favourite passage.

Unless you talk about the Anger circle, in which souls fight each other in the river Styx.

Yes, it's funny when Dante waits up long to Virgil asking for "Lucifer's permission."

Need a Beta tester~?

PS what happend to that Army wad you worked on?

[JMAA]

I haven't been updating this for long, but don't worry, I'll continue. I just have a side project around. Stay tuned for it!

[Dokuro]

boss?

was those mods being homophobic locking your thread j/k

[JMAA]

boss?

was those mods being homophobic locking your thread j/k

Ok, WTF is that old crap? Where did you found it?

[JMAA]

Anyway, here's a screen of Limbo's Boss, King Minos.


Also, I'm thinking of giving out a "Limbo demo" to let you playtest it. Anyone for this?

[Snarboo]

I just played through your demo and I'd like to post some criticisms and suggestions.

Starting with my criticisms:

1. Monster choice is random in a bad way. It's as though you picked out a bunch of bestiary monsters based on how cool you thought they were rather than choosing monsters that were appropriate for the setting. I'd stick with Gothic monsters mostly. That leads to me next point.
2. The monsters chosen are simply too hard. The red maulotaurs are the worst offenders. Their attacks are hard to dodge and do a ridiculous amount of damage. I'd remove these entirely as they were simply too difficult to fight.
3. There isn't enough weapon variety. The shotgun and super shotgun are fine weapons, but they can't handle everything. There were many points I would have liked a chaingun, rocket launcher or plasma rifle instead. Consider adding more weapons.
4. King Minos is far too easy. His attacks are easy to dodge and he sort of just sits there. Not a bad idea, but it needs work.
5. There were far too many instant death pits. In most cases, the player won't bother walking into them, but when the first thing that happens to you when starting the map is falling into the large hole in the bridge and splattering, it tends to leave a sour taste in your mouth.
6. Texture choice is...bland. Really bland. There is far too much brown used and there is little variation in the rock textures. I know this is the entrance to hell, but consider using some red stone and even placing some marble structures on the outskirts of the map.
7. The map was far too easy and short overall. The bad monster placement makes it take longer than it should. It only took me about 5 minutes to finish the map from start to finish, even with dying and constant restarts. Limbo should provide a nice difficulty curve for people starting your map set, but right now the difficulty curve looks like the Himalayas: sharp rises and drops.

Now for some suggestions:

1. The doorway that you see across the lava on the bridge should maybe be turned into a secret for those willing to run towards it.
2. Detailing is pretty flat. Some of this is texture choice but some of it is lack of variation in the map structure. I'm not saying you need a ton of detail and linedefs necessarily. Since ZDoom supports slopes, you should consider playing some maps from Build engine games such as Duke Nukem 3D and Blood for good outdoor slope usage. It can easily add an appealing look to your map if you don't go overboard.
3. New weapons might be nice, but if you do add custom weapons, they should either be appropriate skin changes or compliment the existing Doom weapons. I leave this one entirely up to you.
4. Minos' tentacles are not resistant to his attacks, meaning you can easily bait the fireballs he spits out into destroying his tentacles.
5. Using a script triggered by picking up the super shotgun for the early monster ambush is kind of silly. The player is also too far away when the doors swing open to reveal the monsters, forcing the player to backtrack to start the fight. Consider using linedefs to trigger the ambush and put the super shotgun in front of the doors so that the player is quickly attacked instead. This is a pretty common ambush scenario, and if setup right can keep the player from cheesing it.
6. The boat sequence was kind of interesting, but also kind of boring. It was also frustrating because you blocked the player from walking on the cargo hatches that spawn the monsters. At most points the player has plenty of room to move around in, but it would be nice if he had more. The hectebus at the end was kind of a "fuck you" movement thanks to the awkward space the player has to move in.
7. Consider making the river of bodies move, like the rivers in Heretic and Hexen. I noticed you used the texture for a waterfall, which worked well, but it's strange seeing bodies fall into a pit if the river itself isn't moving. You might want to align the waterfall texture to the floor texture and synchronize the two so they flow together.
8. The starting area is kind of bland. It could use some sprucing up, both in detail and scenery objects, such as shrubs, torches, bodies etc. I expect the entrance to hell to be kind of foreboding, if unassuming until you reach the gates themselves.
9. Speaking of which, you should consider putting the famous Latin phrase that adorns the gates of Hell in front of the large door on the bridge. It might already be there, but I didn't notice it.

Some random thoughts:

1. The first secret was kind of clever. This is an example of a good idea and a nice detail that can make your map fun to play.
2. I noticed you used a lot of GL and blood effects. I kind of doubt they are yours, but they're still nice. However, in some spots the effects caused my computer to crawl, namely when I was fighting the red maulotaurs.

Overall, I'd say Limbo is aggressively average. It's not bad, but there is nothing about it that stands out. It feels like a lot of ZDoom maps I've played before, just blander. Keep working on this and I'd say you'd have something nice.

Edit:
A couple of other things I noticed:

1. Lighting is very flat in the map. For the most part, lighting is the same level throughout the map. Try creating more contrast with the light, such as creating light and dark areas using outdoor areas and caves.
2. It's possible to run over the switch that triggers the boat fight fast enough to get past the raising bars, trapping you outside of the boat.
3. There is not enough health in the map. You're often rather skimp. Ammo is okay, however.
4. I didn't know King Minos was made of nothing but livers. :p His death sequence could be made more interesting, but don't over do it.
5. The player is not forced to stay in the arena with King Minos when the fight starts. This means the player can stand at the entrance to the arena and fire pot shots at Minos and not be hit by his attacks.
6. King Minos' fireballs do not disappear when he dies, meaning the player could conceivably be killed by them after killing him.
7. The door that leads into on the bridge makes no sound. Somehow I thought opening the gates of Hell would be more dramatic.
8. On that note, you might want to find good door sounds. Doom's door sounds aren't really appropriate. Heretic and Hexen both have good door sounds.

Releasing an early demo is a good idea. There's an old motto I try and adhere by: release early, release often. Just be sure to keep working on this as necessary.

[JMAA]

The issues is something that I will start working on. Now for the random thoughts:

The first secret was kind of clever. This is an example of a good idea and a nice detail that can make your map fun to play.

You mean that small piece of rock in the pit that teleports you to the tower that had the imp and soul harvester and a Soulsphere? Yeah. Kind of original.

I noticed you used a lot of GL and blood effects. I kind of doubt they are yours, but they're still nice. However, in some spots the effects caused my computer to crawl, namely when I was fighting the red maulotaurs.

I will get rid of the red maulotaurs (Lucifer's Soldiers) unless they're for a boss fight. But concretely, what effects exactly made you lag?

[Snarboo]

The Lucifer Soldier attack that shot out a wave of flames on the ground.

[JMAA]

The Lucifer Soldier attack that shot out a wave of flames on the ground.

It's base is the Hell Apprentice from the Realm. Maybe replacing it with the attack that throws out a fireball?

[Snarboo]

I just noticed that the door to the blue armor secret can only be opened once from either side, meaning that if the door closes while you are in the secret you get trapped. It also means you can't get the armor if the door shuts before you enter.

[JMAA]

I just noticed that the door to the blue armor secret can only be opened once from either side, meaning that if the door closes while you are in the secret you get trapped. It also means you can't get the armor if the door shuts before you enter.

Whoops. My bad.