[WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby NovaDragon » Mon May 25, 2009 11:24 pm

Those acid demons I think ive seen somewhere before in another wad and if i remember.....1 hit kill.
Anyhow I havent played it yet (will do tomorrow and maybe send another review) but point being this is supposed to be like tnt right? If it is then how come it seems like plutonia style and even beyond from what people were saying? Tnt is much more lax then plutonia ever was, in fact barons and viles were rare throught the episode and you never encountered a major boss until map 13 in tnt vs map 5 in plutonia. So the difficulty should be seriously toned down to begin with, maybe a little harder than Tnt (since its easier than most wads) but nowhere near the difficulty of plutonia. I can just say that right now before even playing it based off the other reviews.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Ethril » Tue May 26, 2009 2:53 am

Marty Kirra wrote:You should never hear an Archvile barely 30 seconds in the map.


Plutonia, Map 11. :V

Of course, that's an example of well-executed Archvile spam. This... Not so much.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Cardboard Marty » Tue May 26, 2009 5:46 am

I suppose that's different (slightly), as this is the first map of the wad, and you barely have any ammo, armed with only a shotgun.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Pedro vc » Tue May 26, 2009 7:24 am

Woolie Wool wrote:This sucks. Really, really sucks. It's the worst megawad since Doom Jr. In addition to the above comments, I would add to its list of failures:

Overactive Item Placement Syndrome: Walls of medikits, multiple BFGs, etc.
Shitty zombieman rifle with a slow rate of fire and awful stock sound effect.
THE WORST MONSTERS EVER. The Hellwizard, Acid, Motherdemon, and that Pain Elemental thing are terrible. The Motherdemon is literally impossible to dodge. She can hit you while you're in SR-50. The Hellwizard is ugly, has a cheap attack, and has crappy Doom 64 sounds. The Acid...BFG effects, ripped HACX sprites, and an incredibly slow walk. Sucks.
Door textures that do nothing and lead to nowhere.
The music is pure ear canal sodomy.
THE ROOM OF TEN BILLION JILLION HIDDEN ARCHVILES. FUUUUUCK.
Not aligning textures properly, anywhere
Unpegged doortracks aplenty.
DOORBLU/RED/YEL textures are not ornaments. They should be used to mark locked doors, but in map04 they appear everywhere.
The ending text is HORRIBLE. Seriously, "feets"? That sounds like something from a small talk passage in a bad yaoi fanfiction story.

I suggest you scrap the whole thing, learn to map properly, and start a new project later. This is godawful. It's shit. it sucks. It makes me angry with God Mode on. frak this wad.

Just IDCLEVed to the hidden map06. This is so bad it's beyond words. A blank maze with SFALL1 for the ceiling, a cinder block texture for the floor, 7 cybers, no health, no ammo, and no sky defined. This is wow.wad quality.


"Overactive Item Placement Syndrome: Walls of medikits, multiple BFGs, etc."

And?

"Shitty zombieman rifle with a slow rate of fire and awful stock sound effect."

The problem is with you. The rifle is the best weapon ti kill zombies/ imps with single shot withiut waste of ammo.

"THE WORST MONSTERS EVER. The Hellwizard, Acid, Motherdemon, and that Pain Elemental thing are terrible. The Motherdemon is literally impossible to dodge. She can hit you while you're in SR-50. The Hellwizard is ugly, has a cheap attack, and has crappy Doom 64 sounds. The Acid...BFG effects, ripped HACX sprites, and an incredibly slow walk. Sucks.
Door textures that do nothing and lead to nowhere."

What your suggestions? The monsters of the R667 bestiary is overused. About the Motherdemon.... The problem is with you again.

"The music is pure ear canal sodomy."

You don't know how to turn down the volume?

"THE ROOM OF TEN BILLION JILLION HIDDEN ARCHVILES. FUUUUUCK."

Eh.... Ok, it's so hard.

"Not aligning textures properly, anywhere"

Where?

"Unpegged doortracks aplenty."

You want a perfect wad? This so a little bug in some doors.

"DOORBLU/RED/YEL textures are not ornaments. They should be used to mark locked doors, but in map04 they appear everywhere."

See previous answer.

"The ending text is HORRIBLE. Seriously, "feets"? That sounds like something from a small talk passage in a bad yaoi fanfiction story."

-_-


For the others, thanks by your opinions.
I'm trying to make something not so hard and more oldschool, without abuse of new monsters and weapons :D
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Xim » Tue May 26, 2009 7:53 am

The R667 bestiary monsters may be overused (most of them, there are new ones up that haven't been used as much), but at least most of them are original, so they shouldn't be dismissed.

The reason the acid demon and the mother demon are good is because they don't fit. You have 3D model rip characters mixed in with old-skool looking monsters, that's usually not the best.

Tone down the difficulty, because that's why I didn't even want to continue playing. I have little-to-no fun playing on god mode.

And at least get a centred graphic for the quad shotgun, like c'mon it looks sooo out of place.

And one more thing, did you really have to call this TNT2? I really don't see much of a connection to TNT in it, other than being a wad for it.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Woolie Wool » Tue May 26, 2009 8:03 am

"Overactive Item Placement Syndrome: Walls of medikits, multiple BFGs, etc."

And?

It means your item placement sucks.

"Shitty zombieman rifle with a slow rate of fire and awful stock sound effect."

The problem is with you. The rifle is the best weapon ti kill zombies/ imps with single shot withiut waste of ammo.

Yeah, too bad it doesn't animate, has an awful sound, and has higher priority than the fucking SUPER SHOTGUN in slot 3.

"THE WORST MONSTERS EVER. The Hellwizard, Acid, Motherdemon, and that Pain Elemental thing are terrible. The Motherdemon is literally impossible to dodge. She can hit you while you're in SR-50. The Hellwizard is ugly, has a cheap attack, and has crappy Doom 64 sounds. The Acid...BFG effects, ripped HACX sprites, and an incredibly slow walk. Sucks.
Door textures that do nothing and lead to nowhere."

What your suggestions? The monsters of the R667 bestiary is overused. About the Motherdemon.... The problem is with you again.

Overused? Many of them haven't been used at all yet, like the Wicked, for instance. And they're all better than your horrific monsters.

"The music is pure ear canal sodomy."

You don't know how to turn down the volume?

I don't see how that changes the fact that the music sucks.

"THE ROOM OF TEN BILLION JILLION HIDDEN ARCHVILES. FUUUUUCK."

Eh.... Ok, it's so hard.

Not only is it hard, it is downright unfair, there is no logical difficulty progression, and the fights aren't even fun.

"Not aligning textures properly, anywhere"

Where?

EVERYWHERE. Take the pipe room at the start at map01. Half the pipe textures don't even line up.

"Unpegged doortracks aplenty."

You want a perfect wad? This so a little bug in some doors.

Unacceptable! Not unpegging your doortracks is such an elementary mistake that there is no excuse. It isn't just a bug, it's utterly careless mapping.

"DOORBLU/RED/YEL textures are not ornaments. They should be used to mark locked doors, but in map04 they appear everywhere."

See previous answer.

Do you really think you shouldn't be required to put in enough effort to texture a map properly. You shitting me?!

"The ending text is HORRIBLE. Seriously, "feets"? That sounds like something from a small talk passage in a bad yaoi fanfiction story."

-_-

Excuses, excuses.


I'm trying to make something not so hard and more oldschool, without abuse of new monsters and weapons :D

Well, I guess it was "oldschool" in that it looked like someone had taken some random 1994 map set off the Archives and dumped the world's lamest weapons and monsters in them.

The way you make excuses for yourself is disgusting. You do not try, you do not put effort into making a quality wad, so why shouldn't I give it the savage bludgeoning it deserves? It's especially irritating that you chose to use the name TNT, as if you seriously think this piece of shit is a legitimate successor to one of the most famous megawads ever created. TeamTNT would probably be insulted. You create half-assed, terrible maps, then dismiss any critical opinions out of hand. I think we have this year's Worst Wad winner on our hand, folks.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby TheDarkArchon » Tue May 26, 2009 8:17 am

I'm trying to make something not so hard and more oldschool, without abuse of new monsters and weapons


You've failed miserably. Especially on the latter half of the sentence.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Gez » Tue May 26, 2009 8:46 am

TheDarkArchon wrote:
I'm trying to make something not so hard and more oldschool, without abuse of new monsters and weapons


You've failed miserably. Especially on the latter half of the sentence.

To be fair, he said "I'm trying", not "I've tried" -- he's talking about improving that.

My advices:
1. Don't call it TNT2. You can try to call something else which has TNT in it, but make it clear that it's not actually TNT2.
2. Get rid of the new monsters and weapons. Especially those that don't look and feel like Doom. If they're ripped from other games, even other Doom games (e.g., those Doom 64 demons), they'll look bad.
3. You should probably redo the levels from scratch, it would be less work than fixing them. Make sure to unpeg door tracks whenever you create a door, don't wait, to align textures as you lay out walls, and so on. Don't put that part off to later when the level is finished because by then there will be so much things to fix that you'll simply not do it.
4. Levels should have a feeling of continuity in just about everything: difficulty progression; enemies, weapons and item introduction; story; and so on. Plan the levels ahead of time, before even starting to map them in the editor.

A Doom story doesn't need to be rich, complex, or original, since it's Doom, but there should be one for a megawad. For example, Doom 2's story is "Marine enters infested starport, trying to disable the field that prevents human starship from evacuating refugees to places with less demons. Then he heads off to the center of the infestation, his home city, searching for a way to stop the invasion. As he finds no way of closing it from the Earth side, he enters Hell and ends up destroying the Icon of Sin, the gigantic demon that spawned all the monsters." Or, to sum it up in a shorter form: Base->City->Hell. Doom 1's story was Base -> Corrupted base -> Hell -> Corrupted Earth.

This gives you a thematic progression, so that when playing through the mod you don't feel like you're going through a random collection of maps with no connection between each others.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Cutmanmike » Tue May 26, 2009 8:57 am

Be nice TDA, Woolie Wool. Refer to Gez's post if you need to know what I mean by nice.

Gez wrote:A Doom story doesn't need to be rich, complex, or original, since it's Doom, but there should be one for a megawad. For example, Doom 2's story is "Marine enters infested starport, trying to disable the field that prevents human starship from evacuating refugees to places with less demons. Then he heads off to the center of the infestation, his home city, searching for a way to stop the invasion. As he finds no way of closing it from the Earth side, he enters Hell and ends up destroying the Icon of Sin, the gigantic demon that spawned all the monsters." Or, to sum it up in a shorter form: Base->City->Hell. Doom 1's story was Base -> Corrupted base -> Hell -> Corrupted Earth.


Unless the WAD itself revolves around the story, "Marine, Guns, Shoot stuff" will suffice.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Gez » Tue May 26, 2009 9:01 am

That works for a map or two. But for a 32-map megawad, it's a bit discombobulated if you jump from a space ship to hell to a jungle to a gothic castle to a modern city to a moonbase...
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Cutmanmike » Tue May 26, 2009 9:03 am

Honestly I don't mind that as long as it plays well enough for me to stick around for all 32 maps. That might just be me though :)
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Gez » Tue May 26, 2009 9:19 am

We're talking about a project that wants to be a sequel to a megawad with a story. Not something like the Community Chest.
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby Cutmanmike » Tue May 26, 2009 9:22 am

But again, TNT could have easily had the same story I posted above and I would have bought it. :)
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Re: [WIP]TNT2 [+unnoficial sequence][+Download]

Postby [WH]-Wilou84 » Wed May 27, 2009 2:56 am

Well by reading the above comments, I was expecting to play something really, really awful.
Sure this wad is bad, sure I won't play it twice, and sure this doesn't give any justice to the original TNT Evilution, but it's not _that_ terrible.

Woolie Wool wrote:Overactive Item Placement Syndrome: Walls of medikits, multiple BFGs, etc.

Agreed on that. It can be good for those "spamming coop" wads like coopbuildm, but not for the unofficial sequel of an IWAD.
Besides it's really annoying : in map 04, you have this place next to the "blue" door ( which actually doesn't need the bleu key, see next comment ) with a pile of spheres.
It's just damn hard and not fun to try not to pick the whole set at once. And what's the point of it anyway ?

Woolie Wool wrote:DOORBLU/RED/YEL textures are not ornaments. They should be used to mark locked doors, but in map04 they appear everywhere.

Agreed on that too. In maps 01-03, you applied carefully those textures next to locked doors, so what happened in map 04 ?

About unpegging textures under door sides : Why is it mandatory ?
For medieval doors you could have some texture with chains and have it moving along with the door itself, for example...

Pedro, your hordes of monsters could suit another type of megawad, but then again, not for a wad called "TNT 2". The first TNT didn't have this kind of gameplay.
And the hidden Arch-Vile group wad awful. Seriously.

The fight with the Motherdemon isn't that great either. Did you made that with jumping in mind ?
_________

Pedro, please, please don't call it TNT 2.

Plutonia 2 was successful because it tried to stay faithful to the original ( close to vanilla limitations, no new monsters nor weapons, and quite similar level design ).
You should do the same if you really want to name it "TNT 2", but it's seriously a bad idea.
Besides, our friends from Russia are already working on TNT Evilution 2.
But ssh, it's a secret :p
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