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Havoc wrote:Hm, why don't you take the alpha bayonet graphics from my WAD as base? You could take the arm parts of the sprites, so you don't have to redo them at least, but that's up to you.
Well, like I said--the whole wood stock of the rifle was redone, so I'd effectively have to somehow redraw that or something for use here. Or scale it or something. I dunno, we'll see.
I never did like how the arms were positioned in that sprite, though, it always looked a little stupid to me. >.>
I'll also point out here that we really shouldn't be using a bayonet in the first place--the Doom Bible specifies a knife as the melee weapon, and makes no mention of this (somewhat ridiculous IMO) bayonet weapon.
Why do we even need a rifle, the Doom Bible (in some portions) mentioned a pistol instead. If you look in the 0.2 alpha wad, you'll notice that they had a pistol graphic in there as part of the HUD that showed you what weapon you had out and how much ammo was left.
I'll also point out here that we really shouldn't be using a bayonet in the first place--the Doom Bible specifies a knife as the melee weapon, and makes no mention of this (somewhat ridiculous IMO) bayonet weapon.
Good point, I guess we can abandon the rifle and using a knife instead, but there'll be surely not the ridiculous knuckle duster anymore! I always found that a very stupid "weapon" in Doom. Defeating a demon with just a knuckle duster? Yeah, right
Sodahollic wrote:Why do we even need a rifle, the Doom Bible (in some portions) mentioned a pistol instead. If you look in the 0.2 alpha wad, you'll notice that they had a pistol graphic in there as part of the HUD that showed you what weapon you had out and how much ammo was left.
The pistol will be a secondary weapon, but your primary weapon is the rifle and to be honest, I'm not following the Doom Bible to 100% and if you look at the Doom marine sprites you can see that he's holding the rifle and as this is your primary weapon, at least in my mod, it will be kept this way.
Onslaught Six wrote:and makes no mention of this (somewhat ridiculous IMO) bayonet weapon.
Does that mean you think a bayonet is ridiculous generally or that just this particular one is?
The latter. I think it's primarily because, due to the nature of Doom's HUD sprites (centered view and such) it's impossible to really show a bayonet mounted in the traditional position--under the barrel--so instead they mounted two on the sides of the barrel. And it looks stupid and the way DoomGuy attacks with it is just ridiculous--instead of any kind of realistic stabbing or thrusting motion, it's more of a "I'm tossing this out in front of me and hoping it hits something!"
Sodahollic wrote:Why do we even need a rifle, the Doom Bible (in some portions) mentioned a pistol instead. If you look in the 0.2 alpha wad, you'll notice that they had a pistol graphic in there as part of the HUD that showed you what weapon you had out and how much ammo was left.
IIRC, aren't the 0.2 HUD weapon graphics you're talking about just silouettes ripped from Wolfenstein?
Anyway, have you decided on a concrete weapons list yet? I'd really like to continue helping on this--I dig the Doom Bible a lot, and I've always wanted to work on a project that incorporated it--and this totally looks like a great way to do it.
EDIT: Here's the relevant crap from the Doom Bible:
Spoiler:
Knife (gray). Attachment to the machine pistol. Does minimum damage, more on
back attack.
Machine Pistol (violet). One shot at a time. Has knife attachment for close combat.
Shotgun (blue). One shot at a time. Much more powerful, wider target range.
Heavy recoil.
Automatic machine gun (green). Multiple-shots of pistol-level damage.
Missile launcher (yellow). Shoots very damaging missiles. Large Recoil.
Added in Episode 2:
Dark Claw (black). Demon weapon that casts a dark cloud of tortured essence.
Silent but deadly.
Added in Episode 3:
Probiectile (orange). Minimal damage, but gives readout on enemy.
Added in Doom 4-6 are:
Spray rifle (brown). Multiple shots in a 600 are. Powerful as shotgun, but spread
out more. Shotgun recoil.
BFG 2704 (red). Horrible hallway-scouring weapon. Damages user a bit. Awful
recoil. BFG stands for "Big Fucking Gun." Safest use: back to wall, distant target.
In the commercial game, we have the final, rare weapon:
Unmaker (white). Demon-tech weapon that hurts pure demons a lot, demon-humans very little, tech demons some. Made of demon bones.
Ammo is required for weapons, of course, so here it is!
Bullets. Used by, pistol, shotgun (gamism), machine gun, spray rifle.
Killed humans. The Darkclaw and Unmaker feed on human souls. Killing
possessed humans or hellslaves allows the weapons to feed.
So yeah. It looks like our "rifle" is referred to as a "Machine Pistol." This makes a bit of sense as Doom was originally planned--in part--under the Aliens lisence, so it'd make sense for them to have Kickass Space Marine Machinegun Rifle Things. Still, the Bible says that the Knife is a bayonet attachment to the rifle--but I still really don't like this idea, both on a functional and practical level--we don't have any good sprites for it, and it makes little sense from a gameplay standpoint--wouldn't you have to actually attach it to the rifle--or better, wouldn't it be attached 'constantly' and you could use it as an altfire? But that still requires sprites--so I suggest we stick with adding a regular Knife ala Wolf3D. Borg it.
Onslaught Six wrote:Anyway, have you decided on a concrete weapons list yet?
Yes, I do have a concrete weapons list. So far the following weapons are already implanted:
Spoiler:
Knuckle duster (to be removed / replaced)
Chainsaw
Pistol
Rifle with attached bayonet
Shotgun
Super shotgun
Automatic machine gun (Chaingun)
Spray rifle
Missile launcher
Plasma gun
BFG 9000 and BFG 2704 as secondary attack
Dark claw
Unmarker
I think that's more than enough weapons, but some weapon sprites still looking like a layout draft, at least the muzzle flashes.
Onslaught Six wrote:Still, the Bible says that the Knife is a bayonet attachment to the rifle--but I still really don't like this idea, both on a functional and practical level--we don't have any good sprites for it, and it makes little sense from a gameplay standpoint--wouldn't you have to actually attach it to the rifle--or better, wouldn't it be attached 'constantly' and you could use it as an altfire? But that still requires sprites--so I suggest we stick with adding a regular Knife ala Wolf3D. Borg it.
Well, Ben2k9 had created a way to have the rifle bayonet as secondary / alternative fire, but unfortunately it has some bugs which are caused by ZDoom. You can read more about it here. So it's probably better to have a knife instead of a bayonet.
Onslaught Six wrote:The latter. I think it's primarily because, due to the nature of Doom's HUD sprites (centered view and such) it's impossible to really show a bayonet mounted in the traditional position--under the barrel--so instead they mounted two on the sides of the barrel. And it looks stupid and the way DoomGuy attacks with it is just ridiculous--instead of any kind of realistic stabbing or thrusting motion, it's more of a "I'm tossing this out in front of me and hoping it hits something!"
Right, I understand. This particular bayonet is particularly useless. The main technique, and the way a real bayonet is designed, (as you may well know) is to slide between the ribs. The person using should also be trained to employ a twisting motion with his rifle to further use these capabilities of the bayonet. This simply wouldn't be possible with the double blade from the Doom alphas as the double prong would make it difficult, if not impossible, to twist. A bayonet can be a very effective weapon (the British army are certainly still trained extensively in its use) but the Doom alpha one is almost as if it had been designed by a game artist rather than a soldier.
