[No] Neutral monster

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Neutral monster

Postby DBThanatos » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:11 am

Dont know if there is still DECORATE development, but I'll try anyway:

A flag like "+NEUTRAL" which will make a monster... ehh... neutral. Wont be ally nor foe to player or monsters (or firendlies). If attacked by any of them, them, it will start attacking it's agressor.





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Re: Neutral monster

Postby MartinHowe » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:52 am

DBThanatos wrote:Dont know if there is still DECORATE development

Given the lack of any comment from Randy - plus he's busy on all that graphics stuff -, I'd say that any form of DoomScript is realistically months away, so I doubt it... :( In any case, this isn't really a DECORATE issue; a flag like this is an engine built-in, though you'd still need DECORATE to access it.

DBThanatos wrote:A flag like "+NEUTRAL" which will make a monster... ehh... neutral. Wont be ally nor foe to player or monsters (or friendlies). If attacked by any of them, them, it will start attacking it's aggressor.

I made this as a code submission several years ago, along with flags to explicitly make idle friendlies walk-on-the-spot like normal monsters and such; at the time, Graf replied "interesting :wink:" and nothing has been heard of it since! I probably still have the zdoomfx archive gathering dust somewhere...
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby Pinky's ass » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:27 pm

I do need this. :|
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby Project Dark Fox » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:30 pm

DBThanatos wrote:Dont know if there is still DECORATE development, but I'll try anyway:

A flag like "+NEUTRAL" which will make a monster... ehh... neutral. Wont be ally nor foe to player or monsters (or firendlies). If attacked by any of them, them, it will start attacking it's agressor.

I'm all for it. Great for neutral villages showing several NPCs with null to major anger issues when attacked by anything. :)
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby MasterOFDeath » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:35 pm

I'm all for this neutral flag as well. This has numerous uses!
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby bagheadspidey » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:57 pm

I'm all for this feature as well... I've been trying to think of ways to fake this with the current flags. Another similar flag I'd like to see is one that lets a monster target anything, friendly or not... maybe +BERSERK?
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby DBThanatos » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:01 pm

bagheadspidey wrote:I'm all for this feature as well... I've been trying to think of ways to fake this with the current flags. Another similar flag I'd like to see is one that lets a monster target anything, friendly or not... maybe +BERSERK?


hell, I thought about that too :D :laff:
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby Matt » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:29 pm

bagheadspidey wrote:I'm all for this feature as well... I've been trying to think of ways to fake this with the current flags. Another similar flag I'd like to see is one that lets a monster target anything, friendly or not... maybe +BERSERK?

Sadly, non-"friendly" monsters spontaneously targeting anything other than the player was no'd a while back. Something about constant sight checks and having to repeat them for every monster against every monster. (Not sure how this allows for friendlies, though... or does it happen anyway and it's just that no one's ever bothered putting enough friendlies on a map to notice the performance hit?)

The neutral monster shouldn't have any such problem, though.
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby Necromage » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:03 pm

What would really be useful is if we could assign a monster to a specific team.
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby Matt » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:14 pm

last time that got [no]d

another explanation

Although to test this out for myself, making all the imps friendly in map29 doesn't cause much of a slowdown...
EDIT: But then again, this was on my new laptop...
Last edited by Matt on Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby DBThanatos » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:08 am

Vaecrius wrote:...or does it happen anyway and it's just that no one's ever bothered putting enough friendlies on a map to notice the performance hit?


At the time I was testing the NecromanticBonestaff (a modified version of the vilestaff in WWR) in my old 200MHz pentium, a couple (active) friendlies worked fine, but more than 5 or so, really slowed my PC at an unplayable point. Now that you mention it, it COULD have something to do with that. Even though the friendlies beome active only when they see the player, I think they still need to look for the closest foe to attack.



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Re: Neutral monster

Postby Unknown_Assassin » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:58 pm

I am for this suggestion. :)
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby CaptainToenail » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:07 pm

What would really be useful is if we could assign a monster to a specific team.


Nice idea, I was wanting this too for Skulltag, because I was going to make landmines and autoguns for specific teams in CTF
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby MartinHowe » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:30 pm

Vaecrius wrote:Sadly, non-"friendly" monsters spontaneously targeting anything other than the player was no'd a while back. Something about constant sight checks and having to repeat them for every monster against every monster.

Yes, this could be a performance hit, depending on circumstances, but it is the mapper's choice/responsibility to use it with care, so absolutely no reason to nix it from the engine - empowering the mapper is always a good idea, unless it's going to mean a lot of work to implement.

For one thing, normal monsters and friendlies aren't supposed to be checking for "berserkers", only reacting to them if one hits them. Even if that were not the case, such functionality tends to be used for specific reasons or specific areas of a map; so again, it is surely the mapper's choice as to whether - in the context of their map - it is a good thing or not.

After all, despite the predictions of Doom, the world didn't end when ZDoom finally had a way of monster-damaging areas :)
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Re: Neutral monster

Postby Onslaught Six » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:44 pm

Interestingly, I just thought of a hackjob way you could accomplish this. A_GiveInventory. You'd essentially make the monsters as regular (nonfriendlies, whatever) and run a check through their Melee (or Missile) states for an item. Then you give them said item in their Pain state. So whenever they enter the Pain state, they'd get the item, which would enable them to attack.
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