Ultimate Torment & Torture (New Screens p.26)

[KeksDose]

Good news, Beta Tests have started today, expect a release in about 2 weeks if everything works out as I have planned

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Now what was so funny about this?

[Project Dark Fox]

THat's not an "lol". That's a "Yay."

[KeksDose]

Really? I always thought it was a lol XD

[Project Dark Fox]

The "o" is the head, and the two slashes are the outstretched arms. Come on, KD.

[Gez]

This stick character kinda looks like Rayman...

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[KeksDose]

The "o" is the head, and the two slashes are the outstretched arms. :P Come on, KD. :P

Yeah, talk to the acronym loser here :)

[Cutmanmike]

Sup. I've never played the originals so I can't compare or tell you why you should want to play these all over again

I've been testing this with phobus on coop and I must say these maps are beautiful. The gameplay is very standard, and if anyone says tormentor kills his maps with too much detail, they obviously have no idea what they're talking about. Sure the archviles appearing after you've killed a bunch of enemies and grabbed a key and we've seen the hectebus loads of times before but so what? It still feels fresh.

We only played up to that castle (which you have to do twice for some reason, once on your own and the second time with a bunch of marines) but every second of it was fun. There's a ton of coop bugs and traps we've found but only a few mapping errors, which are bound to be found in maps that are this huge, and I mean HUGE. The use of some resource monsters and KDiZD enemies kinda make me sad but it's not too bad, especially when the detailed maps make up for it. The GZDoom inhancements really make this wad look so much better.

Okay so now the things I didn't like:

1) The player classes make it a little more fun for extra players, but the commando just sucks to play as. He has more health and a chaingun but it just doesn't work well in the world of doom. You'll get paved with projectiles and archvile fires and it becomes a chore to stay alive. I'd recommend that you give him a unique chaingun or something that really punishes enemies because at the minute it just doesn't seem fair. Also he's screwed at some of the platforming moments because of his slower speed.

2) Some of the secrets are really easy to find (and they're really funny secrets, which kills the gameplay sorta so they should be more hidden) as most of them are just switches sticking out behind walls.

3) I hate the flamethrower! Would it be possible to not make the flame projectiles not hurt you? It's a pain in the ass to stand still and fire that thing.

4) The platforming areas. They're cool but very annoying, not to mention they look out of place. This is pretty much a dead zone for the commando.

5) In co-op, i'd highly reccommend bio's checkpoint system or at least a way to teleport near where the action is. The maps are massive and having to treck through all the time from the very start is a pain in the ass.

6) The spiders seem really out of place. Especially since they're so strong and take so many hits when they're... well.. .a spider.

That's about it. From what i've played of KDiZD i'd say this is better, at least for me. Way to go! Can't way to try the next set of levels

[Gez]

The use of some resource monsters and KDiZD enemies kinda make me sad but it's not too bad, especially when the detailed maps make up for it.

Why? Is it using resources in general (but variety is good, and not everyone can create his own, fully original sprites; so that's why there are monster resources out there -- including Torm's very own "beastiary"), or just these monsters in particular that you don't like (and if so, say which!) ?

[Cutmanmike]

Because i've already seen them too much I guess. I'm talking about dark imps (although they seem to be edited sprites this time), those things which look like barons of hell wearing armor and a spear what shoots stuff and the shielded ones (again look different, much cooler but I still hate those things ). Maybe more.

Some of them I haven't ever seen, like those shadowy imp things that run around and those creepy looking imps. Also those barons that look like they're on fire and rape you (man their attack is so unfair).

[Tormentor667]

Hey, first at all thx for helping with coop testing cutty, the demo was great and helped alot But it would have been better to pn these things here instead of posting them into the thread, but nevertheless, here we go

1) The player classes make it a little more fun for extra players, but the commando just sucks to play as. He has more health and a chaingun but it just doesn't work well in the world of doom. You'll get paved with projectiles and archvile fires and it becomes a chore to stay alive. I'd recommend that you give him a unique chaingun or something that really punishes enemies because at the minute it just doesn't seem fair. Also he's screwed at some of the platforming moments because of his slower speed.

After watching the demo, I absolutely agree with this. First at all I speed up the Commando to 0.85 of the normal speed and second I have changed some of the hard to reach and essential for proceeding the game platforms to make them reachable with the commando as well.
Next thing is that I will add a different chaingun like weapon for the commando only to make him stronger and give him a certain + for his slowlyness.

2) Some of the secrets are really easy to find (and they're really funny secrets, which kills the gameplay sorta so they should be more hidden) as most of them are just switches sticking out behind walls.

Already changed the TNT02 secret and will do something similar with the TNT03B secret to make it harder.

3) I hate the flamethrower! Would it be possible to not make the flame projectiles not hurt you? It's a pain in the ass to stand still and fire that thing.

It's the second most powerful weapon in the game next to the pyrocannon and I want the player to take care while using it. You can still strafe or run backwards but it's a hard weapon, indeed, both for the player and enemies

4) The platforming areas. They're cool but very annoying, not to mention they look out of place. This is pretty much a dead zone for the commando.

Changed the problems with the Commando but what's so out of place with them? Which ones do you mean?

5) In co-op, i'd highly reccommend bio's checkpoint system or at least a way to teleport near where the action is. The maps are massive and having to treck through all the time from the very start is a pain in the ass.

I doubt that this will happen. I never understood how they are actually working in KDiZD (too many other scripts around) and as far as I know, Bio isn't that activ around here anymore

6) The spiders seem really out of place. Especially since they're so strong and take so many hits when they're... well.. .a spider.

They are there since TNT Episode 3 and I doubt that I will remove them Beyond, they are Inferno Hell Spiders, Guards of the portal, they just must be strong

[Cutmanmike]

But it would have been better to pm these things here instead of posting them into the thread, but nevertheless, here we go

Well I just wanted to share my thoughts on the whole thing since this is the first time i've ever played this wads fully. I would have been specific if I was gonna do a pm and I think phobus has a list of crap that needs sorting out.

Changed the problems with the Commando but what's so out of place with them? Which ones do you mean?

I'm not sure. They just seemed to be lazily stuck there, though that might not be the case . They look good however, especially the steam from below.

I doubt that this will happen. I never understood how they are actually working in KDiZD (too many other scripts around) and as far as I know, Bio isn't that activ around here anymore

It's not too hard. First you just put teleport spots where you want checkpoints and add to a value in ACS every time you cross a line near where you want the checkpoint. Player starts are then placed in void room. You then need to have an enter script which teleports to the right spot depending on the value set. You might also need a teleport for each player. I'm not 100% on this whole thing though but you will need SOME sort of checkpointy thing because me and phobus got stuck from time to time (he'll let you know).

Btw incase he forgets to tell you, that snow needs a no splash flag. Looks kinda cool but damn we don't need anymore lag in this thing!

Also did you really watch the whole demo?


Btw for the rain thing, i'm sure phobus told you about it, i'd say give the script the net extension:

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script 666 (void) net

and also make it so only player one (the server) can activate it.

[Phobus]

About an hour and a half of demos he got to watch

Also, if you (T667) fancy seeing how to do the checkpoint system, I've got a crude example in my second ZPack map, so if you go there and check it out, you can see roughly how it works.

[Tormentor667]

Well, I will try that In TNT02 it might help a lot conc. the battle arena, you know...

[Bio Hazard]

Making a checkpoint system isn't really difficult.

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// Bio came back from the dead to write this for the good of mankind.
int checkpoint=0;
#define CHECKPOINTBASE 7000;

script 235 (int point){
   if( point > checkpoint ){ // Only go forward
      checkpoint = point;
      print(s:"Checkpoint ", d:point, s:" Reached!");
   }
}

script 987 respawn {
   if( checkpoint ){ // Only teleport if you have reached a checkpoint
      thing_teleport(CHECKPOINTBASE+checkpoint);
      print(s:"Teleported to checkpoint ", d:checkpoint, s:".");
   }
}

(not sure if that will work right out of the box, I haven't written ACS in ~1.5 years)

For this example, we will use a checkpointbase of 7000.

Just put a teleport destination where you want to respawn and tag it CHECKPOINTBASE+pointnumber. (so 7001 for the first, 7002 for the second, 7003 etc...) Notice I didn't use 7000, checkpoint 0 is the player start so we don't need to script it.
Then put ACS_Execute() on a line near the checkpoint (such as a doorway) that calls script 235 with arg1 being pointnumber.

I used to have a version that was player-specific and non-linear but I couldn't seem to find it.

[Phobus]

The one I wrote for him as an example isn't much different for that, though I had it written so it could treat each checkpoint as a special case, to allow for expansion in the respawn script (simply by making it a switch() statement).

Guess I must have been thinking more similarly to you than I though - for some reason I always assumed the ZDCMP #1 one would be highly complex and advanced.