[DISCUSSION] The Community Beastiary (on hold!)

DoomRater · Post by **DoomRater** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:20 pm

Uh................

You said it wasn't about that.

The issue really isn't about credit; it's about trying to maintain some sort of reason to play Skulltag versus other ports.

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:29 pm

Carnevil wrote:It's a shame because you guys seem to see nothing wrong with taking something that someone else worked hard on, and using it for yourself without permission.

stop flipflopping. you're making me confused.

first you state it isn't really about credit, and about drawing players to skulltag, so we comment that, blah, people aren't going to go to skulltag just for the monsters and if they're easily remade elsewhere, that brings even less of a reason to. then you go back to saying it's about credit. make up your mind! Of course there's something wrong with taking something that someone else worked hard on, and using it for yourself without permission, but that wasn't what the discussion was about!

Carnevil · Post by **Carnevil** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:09 pm

I'm not flip flopping. I've said we don't want people using our resources without permission, you guys have said that's basically inevitable and is going to happen anyway, and I've said that's a shame. If someone makes two points during a discussion, then they're a flip flopper? My comments aren't mutually exclusive.

DoomRater · Post by **DoomRater** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:39 pm

Um, wow. Let's just deny that you said "resource stealing" wasn't the issue you were complaining about, then when beaten down on the other issue backpedal to it, which nobody disagreed with?

I'm screenshotting page 13 just in case something snooty happens. And for the record, ripping source code from a source port is FAR more like ripping a map from a megawad. Ripping a monster from a source port is like me making an avatar from Time Lord.

Carnevil · Post by **Carnevil** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:23 am

DoomRater wrote:Um, wow. Let's just deny that you said "resource stealing" wasn't the issue you were complaining about, then when beaten down on the other issue backpedal to it, which nobody disagreed with?

I haven't backpedaled on a single thing. I have a problem with people taking our resources because it diminishes Skulltag's competitive advantage. I ESPECIALLY object to the notion that Skulltag monsters are going to get ripped as Bouncy said, "whether it's liked or not". To me, that is downright rude and disrespectful, and really kills any sort of motivation to make new things.

In certain situations though, I'm okay with people using things if they ask for permission. For instance, Tormentor is a friend and has done some great work and contributed some things to Skulltag, so I don't mind him using some things for his projects, or even to put on his bestiary. At least he's been gracious enough to ask. That's much better than acting like you all are entitled to rip whatever you see fit from Skulltag.

This has been my stance from the first post in this thread, and it will be my stance until the end of this thread. If you think I'm in some way being inconsistent, then try reading things more than once.

DoomRater wrote:And for the record, ripping source code from a source port is FAR more like ripping a map from a megawad.

You act like basing Skulltag off of another open source port is something malicious.

DoomRater wrote:Ripping a monster from a source port is like me making an avatar from Time Lord.

How is that in ANY way similar?

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:31 am

Carnevil wrote:
DoomRater wrote:Um, wow. Let's just deny that you said "resource stealing" wasn't the issue you were complaining about, then when beaten down on the other issue backpedal to it, which nobody disagreed with?
I haven't backpedaled on a single thing. I have a problem with people taking our resources because it diminishes Skulltag's competitive advantage. I ESPECIALLY object to the notion that Skulltag monsters are going to get ripped as Bouncy said, "whether it's liked or not". To me, that is downright rude and disrespectful, and really kills any sort of motivation to make new things.

I certainly understand that. *thus why I will never go near skulltag monsters without permission* I can firmly agree that just ripping it without permission is highly disliked.

The problem is there's too many idiots who'll just rip random sprites and use them, giving credit or otherwise. That's all I was commenting about, since it's these type of people who'll take skulltag monsters.

Tormentor667 · Post by **Tormentor667** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:25 am

First at all I understand what Brad means when he says he doesn't like it if someone just uses the resources from Skulltag without asking but this was not my job, it actually was Omega's job in the first place and if he creates this, I just think he also has asked for permission.

I, by myself asked Carnevil and RottKing both for permission to release the Catharsi monster before I officially did this on Realm667.com and that's something that should be done in the first place, asking for permission and crediting someone elses work.

Concerning the Super Shotgun Guy, if you Carn don't want to see this in the Beastiary, just let me know and I will take out the sprites again and try to find other sprites from someone else (it just would be sad because everyone already knows about the SSGuy from Skulltag and is familiar with what happens when you face this fat guy, but well, it's your stuff).

Concerning the thought that Skulltag's stuff gets ripped and used everywhere else, I don't think that this is bad. First at all, as someone else already stated, no one plays Skulltag just because it has new monsters and no one will stop playing Skulltag just because he can use the monsters from Skulltag in ZDoom/GZDoom as well. Beyond, I would be honored if a Skulltag monster (and everyone knows that it is from Skulltag) appears more often in other ports and wads that are not Skulltag specific. Think about Eriance as well: He has created over 10 new monsters that can be found in the Beastiary and I think he is quite happy about it

And I doubt that no one will ever play Demon Eclipse just because I have the monsters online in my Beastiary

Let's face it, there is nothing bad about it as long as you ask for permission and rip things in a gentle way

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:40 am

Back on topic..

Anybody think they can spice this guy up? I got the bare basics but my creativity's at a low today and I think it'd be a nice addition.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/kjq9ac

and a preview of the monster...

Tormentor667 · Post by **Tormentor667** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:51 am

Uhh... a Phoenix...

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:52 am

Hey, it could be a demon's pet.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind a flying furnace next to them.

XD

Post by **Enjay** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:57 am

Tormentor667 wrote:rip things in a gentle way

Umm... err...

Oh! I see what you mean.

And Cutman, my friend had a budgie that used to fly around his living room. However, one day it was on the floor and my friend accidentally stood on its tail. Shocked, the bird flew into the fire and died in flames. I find the idea of you including a phoeninx in one of your WADs offensive. I demand that you take it out you sicko.

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:17 am

Argh! I'm not cutman! D:
*avatar change* >.>

Tormentor667 · Post by **Tormentor667** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:00 am

Hehe, Enjay

BouncyTEM · Post by **BouncyTEM** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:03 am

Hopefully somebody can make something original and neat out of that phoenix monster I supplied.

DBThanatos · Post by **DBThanatos** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:39 pm

Tormentor667 wrote: Issue #2 - Thamuz
The cyberdemon variant is quite cool, has nice attacks, a very cool behaviour and is a very hard boss monster. I will most likely add this although I will do little changes to some projectiles if thats ok for you Thanatos

Of course, im glad it can be used somehow.

DBT