What do you think about "Resource borrowing"?

[Firewolf]

Also take a gander at the other "ghoul realm" topic someone else has made.

That topic is an embarrasment to me.

[qwerqsar]

Cpying from other WADs... Well, first off, we are actually in an open source game. So there is really not much to do. But if we really think where the problem lies, then we'll have to stick with the aforementioned ethic. I really don't mind copying and so on, specially for beginners (like me ) who are just testing and trying. And why not use stuff if you liked it? But any real creator (of anything, even music and arts) will soemday be drawn to create their own.
So what's up with credits. They should really be done as throughoutly as possible. And that is only possible if everyone includes a section in the readme file where all sources will be cited (pretty much like a scientific text). But since few do, we'll it is impossible to follow it. We have to comprehend that the stuff created will begin to be used like wildfire and crazy, with no credit at all and stuff like that.
It is just up to us to always put the credits where ever possible, even ask if possile (or the author should write in the lower part that he permits to avoid a landslide of mails). But there is really not much to do, just what we can do ourselves. Everytime you bring up something new you'll have to sadly) accept that it will be reused and reused, even before it is done.
ON my part, I try to use before done stuff only if necessary. For example, I am working now with the monsters of the list, but only until I come to understand the scripting part. Afterwards I plan to use those things only sparodically.
BTW, There are many people who can't do stuff like that easily, that's why they rip them. Originality is something for a bunch of people, most won't ever care enough to learn to create new things. So we'll all have to live with that

[Zippy]

Well, first off, we are actually in an open source game.

The engine is open source. Content like sprites, sounds, etc. are owned and copyrighted by those that create them (under US copyright law, at least), and what gets done with them is technically at the owner's discretion. That being said, I'm with HotWax that free sharing of resources is a pretty good ideal in this case, because, seriously, Doom is approaching almost 15 years of age now. The little things we make for it aren't all that important. I'd still argue for proper crediting, though, as the people who put time and effort towards originality are more than deserving of that recognition. By extension, if someone says no to allowing use of their original resource, I would like to grant them that respect.

The only thing I don't like about the more open spread of resources is, and we've already seen at least some of this, the greater affinity for using resources because you can, and not because it's actually adds something to a production. As more and better resources become available, I think it's possible that an open sharing ideal could turn in the wrong direction if there aren't some understood set of ideas for how/when/why you should use resources, and an emphasis on originality being encouraged/better.

[Project Shadowcat]

I'm afraid of the wave of emails I'm going to get for asking permissions when I get my project out the door. I'm doing most of it myself.

You shouldn't really be afraid, as the reality is that most people aren't likely to ask.

My project isn't.... quite surrounding the Doom fanbase.

[DoomRater]

Resource borrowing is my life, at least when it comes to graphics. Without those resources I wouldn't be able to get anything done.

[NiGHTMARE]

There are essentially three issues in this regards: legality, morality, and originality.

Legality: If the text file accompanying a .wad states that you may modify or re-use the contents of that .wad, then you can obviously do so without any problems. Even if a wad states you can't modify re-use the contents, you can always try contacting the author and asking anyway; it may well be that while the author doesn't want his levels to be modified, he has no problem with people modifying or re-using other contents of his .wad.

If the accompanying text file makes no mention of whether you may or may not modify or re-use a .wad's contents, you should always assume that you can't. Again you can try contacting the author, but if you receive no reply it's best to leave the .wad alone.

Morality: You should always do your best to respect the original author's wishes even if they have no legal basis, and try include the appropriate credits in your own text file even if the original mod's text makes no specific request that you to do so. You may even want to consider providing a link to the original work, although again you're under no legal obligation to do so (unless the author specifically requested it).

Originality: Certain resources tend to get used over and over and over again, and sometimes people get tired of seeing (or hearing) them. I mean, that's half the reason people make new resources in the first place! Using your own resources (be they brand new or modifications of existing ones) can add an extra touch of uniqueness to your .wad.

[Juan "JacKThERiPPeR]

I sometimes borrow (ASKING PERMISSION) someones sprites, sounds, etc. when I have the need to or I don't have the skill to do it. And it doesn't harm me though.

[Risen]

If the text file accompanying a .wad states that you may modify or re-use the contents of that .wad, then you can obviously do so without any problems.

Provided, of course, that the author has authority to grant such license. You can't always assume this is true. For instance, a Doom wad may contain the 'use anything' license but contain a modified Hexen monster. You can't legally use the Hexen monster, because the author of the original wad can't legally use it either and therefore isn't able to permit anyone else usage.

[Captain Ventris]

If the creation of this thread in any way was affected by my intent to use the Ghouls in my Table-Top Strategy Game, I want to make it clear that the inclusion of your work and the work of others is intended as an homage to your efforts, and in no way an attempt to gain status on my part. It is merely intended for the enjoyment of those whose projects are within the game. If anyone whose work is listed in the thread does not wish their work to be included, please inform me, and I will remove it immediately.

[DBThanatos]

I'm afraid of the wave of emails I'm going to get for asking permissions when I get my project out the door. I'm doing most of it myself.

You shouldn't really be afraid, as the reality is that most people aren't likely to ask.

is now a problem that people like me ask permission to use something??

the world have changed


DBT

[Project Shadowcat]

No, I would encourage people even asking. It's just that my project isn't going to cater to the ZDoom community, and they'll be asking me a shitload of questions.
I'm not afraid of people asking. I'm afraid of the number of people going to ask me.

[Risen]

People should ask.
Most don't.

[Unknown_Assassin]

I think resource borrowing is okay as long as a person ask and is permitted to do so. Without much borrowing, there wouldn't be as much WADs as there is now. Sure the WAD may not be original, but does that really matter? Time would be wasted and WADs wouldn't be done without resources.

[Lumpy]

I think a big contributer to the spreading of content with out knowing the ownership is people borrowing from others. And then that same person allowing others to freely use the resources in his wad.

I cannot even remember the countless text files I have seen on the ftp site that did just that. They would list off all the credits for the resources that they borrowed up towards the top. Then down by the bottom there'd be a line that goes something like "I free give permission to any one who wishes to use the resources from my wad file".

What I think needs to be done is when somebody gives credit they need to list off every thing that they are using from said person. If it's sprites or textures then list the names of each one. And the same goes for sounds, music, maps. If your using someones script or decorate code or what have you then paste the code in it's entirety in there also. I know that this will make for a really big text file especially if your using alot of "borrowed" graphical resources. But what else can be done.

[skadoomer]

I think its pretty obvious that the stance on resource borrowing seems to be to give proper credit to the author. However, what about ACS and decorate? Code is always a little trickier than graphics and always seems to be somewhat more sensitive when giving credit. You can take an idea from someone from reading their code and then you can just steal the code altogether. Personally, people like LWM and solarsnowfall to name a few have kept pushing the scripting language further and further into its ability to handle complex functions with nothing more than algorithms and some imagination. The rest of us are fortunate enough that they release their scripts as opposed to RTC or coldashell that keep their code secretive (for development or personal reasons)

Since everyone seems to have a proper crediting ethic for graphics, would you give credit if you borrowed even the slightest bit of code from someone else? At what point does the code become something you've made as opposed to something you've just cut and pasted from something you saw that was cool?