New map format

Cutmanmike · Post by **Cutmanmike** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:17 am

I'd use it if it had a good enough editor with it.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:38 am

Grubber wrote:@Graf Zahl: What happened to the "extra data" idea? (the thread at doomworld)

Same as everything: It's impossible to come to an agreement because everyone has his own ideas and wants to stick to some things that make it hard to implement.

The worst thing is that the people this ultimately depends on (i.e. the editor developers) aren't showing any interest whatsoever - with the exception of SlayeR. CodeImp repeatedly stated that he doesn't intend to support anything that isn't universal enough to justify being supported so he'd probably do it only if several ports supported this format and we all know what to think about Deep. He's fundamentally against this and has torpedoed every discussion that came up until it was dead. If it's jerks like him we have to deal with we won't get anywhere at all.

But without full editing support any new map format is a dead issue and frankly - I don't care anymore.

Post by **Nash** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:12 am

Maybe what needs to happen right now is there has to be a super cool level editor (like SLADE

) to support the new map format to sort of kick-start the whole thing. Be the trend-setter or something.

Maybe then more people would be interested in further developing the new format?

Cutmanmike · Post by **Cutmanmike** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:17 am

But if it doesn't, all that time developing the editor for it would be a waste.

T-1 · Post by **T-1** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:20 pm

hmmm, well if it's XML we're talking about, I'd could lend a hand writing an editor (since that doesn't have to be C/C++), I'll get back to you on that on next Friday. Right now I'm working on something for this:
http://gpwiki.org/index.php/GPWiki_Coding_Contest

Post by **Bio Hazard** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:05 pm

I've been thinking about writing a ZDoom editor using a format like XML, but I'd need a little bit of help from the ZDoom devs for engine testing.

My main reason for not doing much with ZDoom is 99% of the new features are dirty hacks (by my definition, which may be different than yours.). Having a nice map format with a new scripting language would be a waste if backward-compatibility with all the funky current ways of doing it had to be an issue. Imagine how much quicker and cleaner ZDoom would be if it didn't have to support all those old hacks that have better alternatives...

If it were up to me, I'd can WAD support in favor of PK3/directories with full path-based file access, drop the software renderer and adopt a new map format and scripting language. Problem is, I don't get my way and even if I did, the result would be too far from Doom that nobody would want to use it. I've been toying with the idea of writing my own engine that could possibly convert Doom WAD files to it's format, but I don't think it would catch on.

Post by **randi** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:09 pm

It seems the only way to ever see a new map format emerge is to develop an editor and engine in tandem and hope people will consider using that editor.

T-1 · Post by **T-1** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:22 pm

randy wrote:It seems the only way to ever see a new map format emerge is to develop an editor and engine in tandem and hope people will consider using that editor.

Perhaps I can (help) do the editor portion of that

However, if I work on the editor alone, please wait until I have something semi-working before anyone even thinks about doing engine stuff, I'm notorious for not finishing anything I ever start. My programming motivation is getting rid of boredom, often ideas get boring to me before I finish them.

Actually, I think I'll start on this editor tommorrow, that particle contest is already getting old.

Post by **Bio Hazard** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:27 pm

If anyone wants to make an editor, I can host an SVN repository.
Heck, if anyone wants to make anything, I can host an SVN repository...

sirjuddington · Post by **sirjuddington** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:41 pm

Well I'd add it to slade, but of course there's no point without engine support

Post by **Nash** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:59 pm

Go guys! Make an awesome new map format and shove it in deep's face! XD

T-1 · Post by **T-1** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:00 pm

But then we're stuck in an endless loop of "No, YOU go first.".

Post by **Nash** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:05 pm

Bio should go first then because he posted some nice code of what the new format could look like a page back. XD

Post by **Bio Hazard** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:35 pm

/me raises his hand

I'll do it! I'll do it!
Wheeeee!

Hmm, now to learn DTD...