How dead is ZDoom really?

AgentSpork · Post by **AgentSpork** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:08 am

Jesus christ people.. Randy is doing a major rewrite of the engine, and you sit there and say that there has not been any real progress in 7 months? There's been a TON of progress in the last 7 months. So what if there's a few bugs? Those things tend to show up from time to time.

Randy should have the right to do whatever he wants with zDoom, and take however long he wants to take doing it. If you don't think so, then you should probably find another source port to be using.

EDIT: Oh, and in regards to GZDoom, graf-zahls port: Sure, some of its features are neat (notably, the 3D floors).. but I personally think it's stupid that some of you people are saying that it is going to replace ZDoom. It's already annoying enough having some unofficial build of ZDoom for you people too impatient to wait for DECORATE weapons support, but now I have to have two, for those who want to use 3D floors? No thanks. I'll just stick with regular ZDoom. If a map doesn't work in the official build of ZDoom then there's a good chance I won't play it at all.

Nmn · Post by **Nmn** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:10 am

Shaviro wrote:It seems to be an issue here on zdoom.org that certain members think they own, or have a say in, the projects that are being created by different people and teams.

I second that. Especially the habbit of labeling projects and other people's work as "dead" when no info is released.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:13 am

shaviro wrote:I am sure Zdoom is not dead.

Neither do I but that's not the point.

Perhaps Randy is tired of listening to requests?

Why did he open a feature requests forum then?

It seems to be an issue here on zdoom.org that certain members think they own, or have a say in, the projects that are being created by different people and teams.

Let's see why:

People want custom weapons and inventory items in official ZDoom. Randy could have given them that more than half a year ago with one day of work (and probably 2 weeks of increaded bug reports.) The code was available since christmas.

And you can hardly compare your project which nobody depends on with waiting for making lots of features in the unofficial build official. If this was a normal gap between versions I think the situation would be different. Last year there was also an 8-month gap but the situation was quite different. But there's a *lot* of stuff in 2.0.96x and I think Randy should at least say what he intends to do with that. Because that's what people want to know - and he would take nearly all the pressure off him if he told because then everyone could safely use 2.0.96x in the sure knowledge that all the features will be supported in the upcoming version.

shaviro · Post by **shaviro** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:20 am

Graf Zahl wrote: Why did he open a feature requests forum then?

So that the many requests don't clutter the other forums?

Let's see why:

People want custom weapons and inventory items in official ZDoom. Randy could have given them that more than half a year ago with one day of work (and probably 2 weeks of increaded bug reports.) The code was available since christmas.

I am sure Randy could have added 3D Floors several years ago. There are also many people who would like to have those in the official ZDoom. If they want custom weapons and inventory items, ask nicely and wait....or make your own version.

But there's a *lot* of stuff in 2.0.96x and I think Randy should at least say what he intends to do with that. Because that's what people want to know - and he would take nearly all the pressure off him if he told because then everyone could safely use 2.0.96x in the sure knowledge that all the features will be supported in the upcoming version.

Did anyone try asking him in an email?
Perhaps he doesn't really know himself. Perhaps he has other, more pressing, issues to deal with. Why should there even be pressure on him?

You are not a customer.

Nmn · Post by **Nmn** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:24 am

I believe people are in fact demanding too much. Randy has a life You know.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:25 am

shaviro wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote: Let's see why:

People want custom weapons and inventory items in official ZDoom. Randy could have given them that more than half a year ago with one day of work (and probably 2 weeks of increaded bug reports.) The code was available since christmas.
I am sure Randy could have added 3D Floors several years ago. There are also many people who would like to have those in the official ZDoom. If they want custom weapons and inventory items, ask nicely and wait....or make your own version.

Guess what I did! As I said, Randy has had access to it for 8.5 months now. I posted it here on the forum on Dec 26th, 2004.

Did anyone try asking him in an email?
Perhaps he doesn't really know himself. Perhaps he has other, more pressing, issues to deal with. Why should there even be pressure on him?

The pressure is there. This thread is just one good sign for it. It is not the first discussion about this and it won't be the last. Randy might ignore it if it suits him but that still doesn't change its presence in this forum.

shaviro · Post by **shaviro** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:28 am

Graf Zahl wrote: Guess what I did! As I said, Randy has had access to it for 8.5 months now. I posted it here on the forum on Dec 26th, 2004.

My point was: Make your own version of Zdoom and shut up about it. You only did the former.

The pressure is there. This thread is just one good sign for it. It is not the first discussion about this and it won't be the last. Randy might ignore it if it suits him but that still doesn't change its presence in this forum.

I asked why there should be pressure on him.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:31 am

Nmn wrote:I believe people are in fact demanding too much. Randy has a life You know.

What? Posting one little paragraph in which he says what he is planning to do with 2.0.96x is asking too much? If he did that the entire issue would evaporate into thin air (because then everyone would know where they stand.) and the community could move on (an important part of which would be the task of adding all the new stuff to the Wiki.)

I'm not even asking him to change his attitude towards the FR forum. If he wants that to remain useless, so be it. Half of its contents are crap anyway (and most of the other half is in .96x.)

shaviro · Post by **shaviro** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:37 am

Graf Zahl wrote:and the community could move on

So you're saying this 'little paragraph' has made the community come to a halt?

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:38 am

shaviro wrote: My point was: Make your own version of Zdoom and shut up about it. You only did the former.

Why should I? I have my opinion and exercise my right to say it. If it annoys some people, it will only make me happier! Because it tells me I am hitting a sore spot.

I asked why there should be pressure on him.

That's not the point. You can ignore a bad situation and let it deteriorate or do something about it. I will probably never understand why there's such a high regard for ignorance no matter where you look. And if you try to do something about it the ignorants try to shout you down.

Cutmanmike · Post by **Cutmanmike** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:42 am

AgentSpork wrote:Randy should have the right to do whatever he wants with zDoom, and take however long he wants to take doing it. If you don't think so, then you should probably find another source port to be using.

GZdoom.

Michi · Post by **Michi** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:45 am

So the thread already got hijacked by the Defenders of the One God.

Michi in another thread wrote:It's a real shame when you see that a whole bunch of apparently respected community members show themselves as total losers.

Team Future: Bringing Doom to its Doom.

Same asshole, different shit.

shaviro · Post by **shaviro** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:45 am

Graf Zahl wrote: That's not the point. You can ignore a bad situation and let it deteriorate or do something about it. I will probably never understand why there's such a high regard for ignorance no matter where you look. And if you try to do something about it the ignorants try to shout you down.

A bad situation?
This 'bad' situation should be dealt with by removing or paralyzing the angry people who demand too much. However I do not view your posts as a bad situation, and surely one Randy can ignore without 'loss.'

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:47 am

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Cutmanmike · Post by **Cutmanmike** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:48 am

Michi wrote:So the thread already got hijacked by the Defenders of the One God.

Michi in another thread wrote:It's a real shame when you see that a whole bunch of apparently respected community members show themselves as total losers.

Team Future: Bringing Doom to its Doom.

Same asshole, different shit.

How are we losers? Being a bit inpatient makes us losers? Or is it the fact that we're concerned about the current position of zdoom?