How dead is ZDoom really?

[Michi]

Looking at the facts before me shows a rather bleak picture:

- no real progress for 7 months now
- Bugs piling up in high numbers and there's not the slightes hint that Randy even looks at them.
- Randy is ignoring any questions regarding the current status and only responding to superficial questions
- looking through the fp_test source shows that not a single bit of code of Graf's christmas present has been added in the 7 months in between.
- The same fact proves that Randy flat out lied when he posted his status update in March. The reason why he didn't release the weapon code was not the float rewrite. It was the simple fact that he hasn't bothered to add it for 3 months at that time! He started his floating point update fully knowing that the community was highly interested in this but yet he started a rewrite he knew would take months. So why did he ignore this code for so long? The fact is that he had to invest a lot of time in converting the old and obsolete code so it seems like extremely poor planning to me. Any answer I could come up with makes this look even worse.

So what's up? To me it seems that ZDoom has come to a dead stop and now that Graf has finally released his GZDoom port (which I have been lucky to be able to beta-test ) I am really worried about ZDoom's future.

Shall I be patient and hope for a change to the better or rather make my upcoming project GZDoom exclusive? From a personal standpoint I wouldn't mind but my fear is that since this is a new source port there might be some people who don't want to use it or are not able to due to technical issues.

[Shadelight]

GZDoom!

[Curunir]

Let's all migrate! or something...

I'd have gone for Graf's port but the OpenGL bugs me. Is it a toggle?

[Graf Zahl]

Is it a toggle?

Software mode is available. But you won't get any of the interesting features like 3D floors or dynamic lights. But as long as you are only interested in the .96x features or the new HUD it will do.

That will also apply to any new rendering features I might add. The software mode is there just as a fallback option or to compare things.

[Cutmanmike]

Is it a toggle?

Software mode is available. But you won't get any of the interesting features like 3D floors or dynamic lights. But as long as you are only interested in the .96x features or the new HUD it will do.

That will also apply to any new rendering features I might add. The software mode is there just as a fallback option or to compare things.

Looking directly up in software mode is bad news though. Could you add a limit to how far you look up and down like in zdoom, as an option or dmflag prehaps?

[Graf Zahl]

Already added.

[Cutmanmike]

Okay. Looks like i'm going to join the bandwagon to GZdoom for sure (AFTER I fix this damn map problem or you release the next version).

[Enjay]

Could it just be that Randy is doing his project his way? It is frustrating when we want something, news, a release, a new feature, whatever. However, we have no right to demand it and very little right to expect it. (Randy has provided us with something in the past and we have modified our hobbies and spent our time using his port and helping him in whatever way we could, which is where that right comes from.)

No-body pays Randy for Zdoom and presumably he makes it because he wants to and he is interested in the various ways it entertains him and stretches him to do so. Randy sets the priorities for his project and if he wants to do a FP re-write, that's his business. I may not like the delay or understand the benefits of it, but that's not the point. It would be nice and courteous if he would answer questions or give updates, that's just common decency - he knows we are waiting. But he doesn't have to, nor does he have to make his port to our specifications.

However, Randy has provided us with an exceptional Doom port and has listened to all sorts of input and accommodated many, many requests in the past that I'm sure were not his priorities. I'm sure that, sooner of later, we'll hear something. I'd rather it was sooner, but only Randy can decide that.

[Cutmanmike]

Stuff

Or we can move to DRDTeam.org !

Not being mean or anything, but my project requires features that won't probably ever be seen in Zdoom. Graf has more of an open mind with these things (MOST things...) and wouldn't take months just to add them (Or in this case, even look at them).

[Graf Zahl]

@Enjay: Well, I have to disagree. Hobby or not, I think a source port developer has a certain minimum responsibilty concerning his customers. At the very least that means keeping them informed if apparently nothing at all is happening for month after month. We still don't have a single clue what Randy is planning with the .96x features, especially what he is going to add and what not. There are a lot of people who depend on Randy in some way or another and he is constantly (and apparently intentionally) keeping them in the dark.

That not only concerns the lack of status updates. I have repeatedly said that the Feature Requests forum as it is handled now is an exercise in utter pointlessness. It is just a place where ZDoom's users toss ideas around but the one person who should be the most active there says almost nothing so whether something is posted there or not - it doesn't matter. It can't work that way and only frustrates people - and the tone in this forum clearly reflects that. The hostility that resulted in the installation of moderators didn't come out of nowhere.

[Enjay]

MOST things...

Not my ducking, unfortunately, so I'll be sticking with 2.0.63a +anonone's ducking mod for a while at least. Quite frustrating with no custom weapons and certain decorate features that I'd quite like being missing. Oh well, so be it. I'll have to live without those features. For the stuff I'm playing with ATM, they are less important to me than ducking.

I haven't seen anonone around for a while either so I don't know if he's moved on to other things or not. Shame, work on ZdoomFu had really picked up pace for a while.

[shaviro]

I am sure Zdoom is not dead.
Perhaps Randy is tired of listening to requests?
It seems to be an issue here on zdoom.org that certain members think they own, or have a say in, the projects that are being created by different people and teams.

[Nmn]

@Enjay: Well, I have to disagree. Hobby or not, I think a source port developer has a certain minimum responsibilty concerning his customers.

Nobels words most definately

[Graf Zahl]

MOST things...

Not my ducking, unfortunately, so I'll be sticking with 2.0.63a +anonone's ducking mod for a while at least. Quite frustrating with no custom weapons and certain decorate features that I'd quite like being missing. Oh well, so be it. I'll have to live without those features. For the stuff I'm playing with ATM, they are less important to me than ducking.

I haven't seen anonone around for a while either so I don't know if he's moved on to other things or not. Shame, work on ZdoomFu had really picked up pace for a while.

Maybe I add it when 2.1.0 is out. But as I said, the more I alter the code before that the more work I have afterward.

[Enjay]

@Enjay: Well, I have to disagree. Hobby or not, I think a source port developer has a certain minimum responsibilty concerning his customers. At the very least that means keeping them informed if apparently nothing at all is happening for month after month

I agree about the "certain minimum responsibility" I outlined why in my post. Fairness and courtessy come pretty high on the list of reasons. However, at the end of the day, he doesn't have to, and we certainly can't demand anything so I don't think going on the offensive against Randy (as some people have) will give any benefit.

And I realise that people may wander away because of the way things are happening. I sure Randy does too. That's also his decision.