How are you all putting skies on walls (survey)

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dileepvr
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How are you all putting skies on walls (survey)

Post by dileepvr »

This is meant to get some more eyes on this discussion thread on github: https://github.com/UZDoom/UZDoom/discussions/1618

I need some clarification on what the "correct" (as in will be supported by the engine) way of putting skies on walls. And I'd like to know what has been the popular method in most famous mods and map packs in the last few years.
Basically, take this screenshot from UDB's visual mode:


The cyan numbers label map elements with null textures. 1 and 3 are single-sided lines with null mid-textures. 2 has a null upper texture (though it doesn't really matter what texture you put there). 4 is a floor with null texture.

2 will show a sky and this is the proper id way to throw a sky on a wall.
3 is typically also used in doom mapping.
1 will show the sky as long as some flat with F_SKY1 is close to or within the visible camera frustrum (fov view cone). Otherwise it will show a black (or clearcolor) void.
4 will show the sky for the same reason 1 does. Technically 3 is also showing the sky for the same reason.

So the question is, should 1, 3, and 4 be treated as valid skies for:
a) Trace hits.
b) Projectile explosions and puffs.
c) Projectile bounces.

Right now, only 2 and the F_SKY1 flats (ceilings and floors) are treated as skies for the above three. Line horizons will nullify projectile explosions, puffs and bounces, but will not set the TRACE_HasHitSky flag on a linetracer even if ceiling or floor are set to F_SKY1.

There are many map making tutorials that show 3 as a valid way to make a recessed window in the wall show a sky. But the engine can certainly take a stand that method 2 is the only one that is owed support (in terms of behaviors (a), (b), and (c)). I don't know if the method-2-only path will allow for maps like those floating-platform ones from quake 3 without the use of stacked sector portals or 3d floors.

This should probably include reps from other ports, but unified consensus for this is important for some potential PRs to the engine concerning traces and skyviewpoint sectors.
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Caligari87
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Re: How are you all putting skies on walls (survey)

Post by Caligari87 »

So far as I'm aware, only 2 is considered "valid". The rest are accidental and shouldn't be relied on. At least that's the only way I ever learned; I could be wrong.

(note: this does not include Line_Horizon, which is also valid but not a classic engine method)

8-)
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Enjay
 
 
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Re: How are you all putting skies on walls (survey)

Post by Enjay »

Yep, method 2 for me as well. It's the original and intended method that has existed from day 1. Line_Horizon is the other intended method, but is not an original engine feature. I will happily use either of these. I will not use the others.
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dileepvr
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Re: How are you all putting skies on walls (survey)

Post by dileepvr »

A small list of youtube videos (timestamps included) that show it being done wrong (i guess I'm calling out some names here ... no hate):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fJfjxxh9X8#t=6m21s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veJx6oXaEVM&t=1192s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zu0ogqNlNU&t=310s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lat4gVVDBc#t=53s

There are examples of ones that do it right too, of course. But the error ones go back at least 17 years. And people generally stick to the first method they encounter.
Also, just removing upper textures on, say, one-sided -lines on top of impassible cliffs in concave outdoor areas, is just a little bit easier to just set and forget.

I'll take at look at some cacoaward winning maps, and maybe some maps from famous megawads when I find the time, to see how much of a problem this is, and if it needs a PSA.
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Re: How are you all putting skies on walls (survey)

Post by phantombeta »

dileepvr wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2026 8:54 am A small list of youtube videos (timestamps included) that show it being done wrong (i guess I'm calling out some names here ... no hate):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fJfjxxh9X8#t=6m21s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veJx6oXaEVM&t=1192s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zu0ogqNlNU&t=310s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lat4gVVDBc#t=53s
Chubzdoomer's video has the correct setup with F_SKY1 on the ceiling of the back sector of the "sky wall" uppers. You can see when he goes below them at around the 11:31 mark. (i.e., option 2 in your OP)

The first video also looks to have a correct setup. It's hard to tell with the very low framerate, but at around 6:28 there's a single frame of him behind the wall where you can see a very thin "sliver" of a sky ceiling. In this case he put his actual wall texture on the lower of the line, with the upper for the sky, and made the floor and ceiling of the sky sector have the same height. This is valid as long as the actual wall sky setup is correct. Doom 2 MAP01 has a similar setup.
He's also using ZDoom, so it'd have become a HOM if he were doing it wrong, as RicardoLuis0 mentioned in the Github discussion.

The other two videos just leave single-sided walls with no texture which is indeed incorrect.
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dileepvr
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Re: How are you all putting skies on walls (survey)

Post by dileepvr »

lol looks like I got called out instead.
I apologize to those two creators.
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